I was a member of this church at a young age and the older and more versed in the Bible I become, the more horrified I am at the happenings I experienced. The church worships its leader and her son. Her son is elevated as near perfect and his every action is praised and empowered. Though he too is subject to his mother ("the pastor")'s unyielding authority, his corruption is glorified. He seeks out younger girls that he knows will not stand up to his manipulation or his mothers. He dated a girl of 13 years old while he was 20 and verbally abused and manipulated her. Rather than disciplining him, the church ostracized the young girl once she had found her voice and broken off the relationship of two years. Sun's church operates around fear, shame, and guilt. The church is very 'spiritually' driven and yet the spirit it is operating in is questionable. Anybody else who has experienced the corruption of Sun East I encourage you to post your experiences. She is a false prophet and her actions should not continue to be tolerated as she operates under the guise of the name of Jesus. I am available for discussion and am willing to help anyone who needs it concerning this group. You are welcome to contact me.
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Re: Pastor Sun Hui East First Love Harvest Church Strong Foundations Films
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Re: Larry Helong is a false prophet
Thanks Apostle Dog, for your kind words. You are absolutely correct in what you say about the cult leaders handbook.I wish I had read that book sooner and I would have seen right through all their manipulative garbage!! All I can do now is use my past stupidity and misfortune to warn others.Take care!!
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Re: Drug Rehab Cult Comunita Cenacolo
Glad to see this thread is still active and sorry to hear the work camp is still operating. It seems like just a lifetime ago that I was expelled several weeks prior to parents day weekend for conspiring to organize a demonstration "so vile" that Albino would have been left with the choice of allowing his check writing lifeblood to be scandalized beyond repair or grant his unequivocal blessing and full confidence that myself and my closest buddies were truly redeemed and free to leave his hell hole should we so choose. After digesting the dynamic it was worth a shot and I felt alive! I knew the bastard wasn't sending out my letters and so, after several months of no contact, I went ninja. I jimmied a lock in the electrical room borrowing some speaker wire and a old landline phone. The phone sat hidden for a day until I was able to sneak out on another night sortie and tap into the the outside phone service of the neighboring Baptist Church. That dial-tone confirmed that Albino was lying to me and I knew that anything had to be better than staying put. That decision worked to my advantage because I was soon attacked by 8-10 young adults and I knew I would never place myself in such a powerless position again. There is no hope in Comunita Cencaolo and I'd recommend never letting them drop you in Jacksonville when St. Augustine is within walking distance. I helped a selfless recovering addict repair homes for a week and sold sunglasses in the historic depot over 4th of July (2004) weekend in order to earn cash for a bus ticket back "home". Family is family but I never again took a dime or favor from the people who placed me there. The Community is a very dark place that claims to follow the "Light". I wish them all they deserve but am happy to think of them less and less each year.
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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
I'm glad to find this forum is back up and running. I found this forum years ago, and it was and is good to know I'm not alone. I had personal experience with berachah church from the early 60's until the early 80's, followed by my continued experience with berachah through family members still attending in 2016. I was among one of the many children and young adults who sat in bible class night after night with pen and notebook, scribbling down the doctrine of this or the doctrine of that. It was Bob Thieme Jr and assistant pastor Buddy Dano for a while, until Thieme threw Dano out. I was thoroughly indoctrinated by an early age. By my mid teens, I was tormented by the angst created from the war that raged between my berachah-brainwashed self and my true self as I sought an authentic connection with God. It was horrid. I believe it was God who got me out of there. I'm so grateful. But I did not come away unscathed.One can't experience that much brainwashing without residual effects.
I believe it is brainwashing. I later learned that Thieme Jr had extensive experience studying and lecturing on the topic of brainwashing.He certainly knew how to do it.
Maybe I'll post more later. Even thinking about it for too long is difficult. I clicked on an online sermon sample recently.Hearing the voice of RB Thieme III is difficult because he sounds so much like his father--that flat, authoritarian voice. It's just a voice, but it traumatizes me a little bit. The message is toned down a bit (at least for the online samples) but the message is still off. They still adhere to the theology of RB Thieme Jr. That hasn't changed. It is silly theology.
I believe it is brainwashing. I later learned that Thieme Jr had extensive experience studying and lecturing on the topic of brainwashing.He certainly knew how to do it.
Maybe I'll post more later. Even thinking about it for too long is difficult. I clicked on an online sermon sample recently.Hearing the voice of RB Thieme III is difficult because he sounds so much like his father--that flat, authoritarian voice. It's just a voice, but it traumatizes me a little bit. The message is toned down a bit (at least for the online samples) but the message is still off. They still adhere to the theology of RB Thieme Jr. That hasn't changed. It is silly theology.
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Re: R.B. Thieme Jr., Berachah Church Houston, Robert B. Thieme Jr.
Freeatlast2,
Thanks for sharing. You survived to talk about it. I think you should be so be happy for that. Some I know did not live to lament. I tell you it doesnt matter what RB Thieme jr thought. What matters is (even though it may not feel like it) what YOU think. PERIOD. Your faith in God and yourself and what you think is what matters. It is a tradgedy that so many have been misled. IT IS YOUR SOUL. NOT RB THIEMES SOUL. YOU WATCH OUT FOR YOUR OWN SOUL. RB was more than likely CIA and at least had ties to military intelgiance/CIA. Thieme was a political speaker and put politics before the truth of the Word of God. So guard your own soul because Thieme was a wolf in the night.
Thanks for sharing. You survived to talk about it. I think you should be so be happy for that. Some I know did not live to lament. I tell you it doesnt matter what RB Thieme jr thought. What matters is (even though it may not feel like it) what YOU think. PERIOD. Your faith in God and yourself and what you think is what matters. It is a tradgedy that so many have been misled. IT IS YOUR SOUL. NOT RB THIEMES SOUL. YOU WATCH OUT FOR YOUR OWN SOUL. RB was more than likely CIA and at least had ties to military intelgiance/CIA. Thieme was a political speaker and put politics before the truth of the Word of God. So guard your own soul because Thieme was a wolf in the night.
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Re: Any information on John MacArthur
Please go to www.thewatchmanwakes.com for a long thread on people who have gotten out of both GCC and the Master's Seminary. I am so very sorry about your mother and father, but actually, such behavior is quite typical of MacGroupies, or MacArthurites, and I too have lived through it first-hand.
You see, last Easter I took a wheelchair cab 45 miles to the church at which I was baptized in 1974 (I am a disabled woman in a powerchair). I hoped to see the widow of the pastor who founded the church, and who baptized me, but she wasn't there. Their new pastor is a GTY insider; the man organized the Strange Fire conference.
I shared with another parishioner my testimony, which includes (gasp!), a dream in which Jesus came to me after I came out of severe trauma in my teens, from a mother who worked the Ouija board when I was 11. I had no idea, but that parishioner evidently wanted to rack up points with their new pastor (JMac DESPISES dreams of Jesus--which he derisively scoffs as "mystical experiences").
All I knew was Travis Allen invited me to Easter dinner. I thanked him but said it wouldn't be feasible in my chair. He insisted, saying his children could carry me into the house. I was SO NAIVE. I really thought he was sincere, and I was touched by his kindness. His son took my chair back into the church and I transferred into his car. His kids and I were laughing, but as we left the parking lot, the unthinkable happened.
Travis turned around, and with a vicious look on his face, said, "And I don't want you talking about a 'mystical experience.'" I informed him I won't deny that Jesus came to me in that dream, so he turned the car around and kicked me out of his car. As I sat in his parking lot awaiting my cab, crying and shaking, I asked him why he even invited me to dinner. He hatefully said, "Because I wanted WITNESSES." Then he informed me I have no fear of God, and said we're all going to stand before God someday.
Whoa. As the man who authored the www.thewatchmanwakes.com website said, "Rather than rejoice that God rescued you from the kingdom of witchcraft and darkness, Travis mocked your conversion experience and set you up as a bad example before his wife and children--and this is supposed to be a man of God." I too am struck by the lack of love--and Jesus commanded us to love one another. Former members of GCC say that shunning and shaming are common there, so Travis wouldn't have any idea he'd just sinned against me apparently.
But I want to tell the best part. On the way home in my cab, I opened my Bible--right to 1 Peter 4:14, "If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the spirit of God and of glory rests on you." Halleluia! What a God we have, but I am praying for not only Travis but his new church as well, because they have just opened the door to Satan.
And yes, I know all about JMac denying the saving power and efficacy of Christ's blood, as well as him saying we can take the Mark and still be saved, and am deeply saddened by it. He had identified himself as a false teacher--and this is interesting. 5 months after the Strange Fire conference, he held his 2014 Shepherd's Conference, with 3,000 plus pastors in attendance. Are you ready for this? The lights went out mid-sermon, and Johnny Mac had to finish his sermon in the dark, via flashlight. Incredibly, God's message was lost on him. He said, "I'm still trying to process why this happened. I'll just leave it to the Lord."
You see, last Easter I took a wheelchair cab 45 miles to the church at which I was baptized in 1974 (I am a disabled woman in a powerchair). I hoped to see the widow of the pastor who founded the church, and who baptized me, but she wasn't there. Their new pastor is a GTY insider; the man organized the Strange Fire conference.
I shared with another parishioner my testimony, which includes (gasp!), a dream in which Jesus came to me after I came out of severe trauma in my teens, from a mother who worked the Ouija board when I was 11. I had no idea, but that parishioner evidently wanted to rack up points with their new pastor (JMac DESPISES dreams of Jesus--which he derisively scoffs as "mystical experiences").
All I knew was Travis Allen invited me to Easter dinner. I thanked him but said it wouldn't be feasible in my chair. He insisted, saying his children could carry me into the house. I was SO NAIVE. I really thought he was sincere, and I was touched by his kindness. His son took my chair back into the church and I transferred into his car. His kids and I were laughing, but as we left the parking lot, the unthinkable happened.
Travis turned around, and with a vicious look on his face, said, "And I don't want you talking about a 'mystical experience.'" I informed him I won't deny that Jesus came to me in that dream, so he turned the car around and kicked me out of his car. As I sat in his parking lot awaiting my cab, crying and shaking, I asked him why he even invited me to dinner. He hatefully said, "Because I wanted WITNESSES." Then he informed me I have no fear of God, and said we're all going to stand before God someday.
Whoa. As the man who authored the www.thewatchmanwakes.com website said, "Rather than rejoice that God rescued you from the kingdom of witchcraft and darkness, Travis mocked your conversion experience and set you up as a bad example before his wife and children--and this is supposed to be a man of God." I too am struck by the lack of love--and Jesus commanded us to love one another. Former members of GCC say that shunning and shaming are common there, so Travis wouldn't have any idea he'd just sinned against me apparently.
But I want to tell the best part. On the way home in my cab, I opened my Bible--right to 1 Peter 4:14, "If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the spirit of God and of glory rests on you." Halleluia! What a God we have, but I am praying for not only Travis but his new church as well, because they have just opened the door to Satan.
And yes, I know all about JMac denying the saving power and efficacy of Christ's blood, as well as him saying we can take the Mark and still be saved, and am deeply saddened by it. He had identified himself as a false teacher--and this is interesting. 5 months after the Strange Fire conference, he held his 2014 Shepherd's Conference, with 3,000 plus pastors in attendance. Are you ready for this? The lights went out mid-sermon, and Johnny Mac had to finish his sermon in the dark, via flashlight. Incredibly, God's message was lost on him. He said, "I'm still trying to process why this happened. I'll just leave it to the Lord."
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Re: Any information on John MacArthur
In addition to saying Christians can take the Mark, JMac also has identical views as Mary Baker Eddy regarding the saving power (or lack therof, in his view), and the efficacy of, Jesus' blood. He says we're saved by the death of Christ period, and when the NT writers mention blood in connection with his death, it's a "metaphor, a synonym, a metanym" for death--despite Lev. 17:11, and numerous other Scriptures, he says this.
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Re: Ex members of John MacArthur's church
"Apostle Dog" said there is something basically wrong with John MacArthur. Go to www.thewatchmanwakes.com. I believe now that he is a Merovingian Jew, as is stated on this website, according to his ancestral lineage. Think about John's hatred of all things of the Holy Spirit. Satan hates the gifts of the Spirit. I've heard John scoff what he calls "mystical experences" and even people feeling the "presence of God," and these are things Satan hates as well.
But did you see that 5 months after the Strange Fire conference, during John's 2014 Shepherd's conference, where 3,000 plus pastors were in attendance? The lights went out mid-sermon, and JMac had to continue his sermon in the dark, with a flashlight. I believe God's judgement fell on John MacArthur, yet John says in the video, "I'm still trying to process why this happened. I'll just leave it to the Lord."
But did you see that 5 months after the Strange Fire conference, during John's 2014 Shepherd's conference, where 3,000 plus pastors were in attendance? The lights went out mid-sermon, and JMac had to continue his sermon in the dark, with a flashlight. I believe God's judgement fell on John MacArthur, yet John says in the video, "I'm still trying to process why this happened. I'll just leave it to the Lord."
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Re: Any information on John MacArthur
And don't forget John MacArthur built a museum to himself--featuring first editions of his books.
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Re: Any information on John MacArthur
I am hoping other people in Europe who have suffered and are suffering from Mac's policies and teachings Will come out in the open,take a stand and stop This from spreading.I have had my story published online and can only pray it Will be of use.I am but a drop in the océan.Kr2726 thanks for sharing.
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Re: The Secret Place Ministry Center / Vision Life Ministries / NAR
I have to say thank you to a few individuals whom I will not mention here that brought to my attention what I didnt see before. The 'Bar Rescue' tactics of Jon Taffer have been applied to playing church. Chuck Pierce has a degree in 'Business' and a Masters Work in 'Cognitive Systems' If you put business and psychology together with a religious overtone - you will make money and you will have followers willing to pour money into yur business. Its not what a church leader should seek to do, but we see more and more of it happening today. Its like John Sandford got a degree in 'Religion and Personality' and formed Elijah House. If you take the time to do yur homework, you will find that they have developed a worldwide network based on psychology mixed with religion to create wonderful business models. For example.. Lets say I could convince you that you have something wrong with you, something 'spiritually' wrong with you. Its like I diagnosed you with cancer, and I have the cure. You will come to me for the fix. You will want the cure. And the fix requires some money. Not only did I diagnose you without any proof, but I played upon the cognitive functions of yur mind, so now you are becoming indoctrinated. And here comes the 'business' angle. The 'fix' is written in my book and my training courses, and I will break my book into multiple volumes (each sold separately of course) my training courses will have levels 1, 2, and 3. Then after you purchase the basics, you will reach Intermediate Level etc. Note.. take the time to watch the documentary 'Going Clear' about Scientology and the Thetan bridge. It is very revealing about their systems of progress. You will either do one of two things... 1. You will become my follower and seek me for every answer from now on.. or 2. You will WAKE UP and realize I screwed you out of alot of money and used yur belief in Christ to make you my puppet. And now you have to live with the facts, either way I got you. And this business psychology religious nonsense constantly finds 'new' suckers and there will always be families out there with a troubled child or family member and they will be so desperate for help that they will be suckered into this. Henry Malone has streamlined the process of finding suckers and has done a very good job of hiding where his teaching comes from - Peter Wagner. Ronette Stripling has hurt way more people than she has helped trying to push-force the Henry Malone stuff. . And Chuck Pierce... just a plain weirdo that knows how to influence weak peoples minds and make money on the side. And the saddest thing about it, they use The Bible. The Bible should be used to bring conviction of sin to bring a person to repentance and remission of sins. The Bible should not be used to convince a person to follow the latest business minded religious leader. It to bring people to know Jesus. And you should NEVER forget that!
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Re: "APOSTLE Mike Neville...intentionally wished to brainwash all of us."
May I ask you a couple of questions b4u?
1. What is your affiliation with Praise Chapel?
2. Do you have an affiliation with Potters House, The Arizona Churches?
You seem to be a plant from a fellowship church, and when I say fellowship church, we both know I mean P.C. Potters house or any of the other names these set of cults go by..I.E. La Puerta, The door, Grace chapel, Praise Chapel, and so many more these days....
From your post I gather you are:
1. A Mike Neville devoted follower
2. An advocate of fellowship teaching
3. An undercover plant, (Do you really think we are stupid?) Your fellowship speech betrays you....
Jeff Watkins
Former Pastor and biggest critic of the fellowship
1. What is your affiliation with Praise Chapel?
2. Do you have an affiliation with Potters House, The Arizona Churches?
You seem to be a plant from a fellowship church, and when I say fellowship church, we both know I mean P.C. Potters house or any of the other names these set of cults go by..I.E. La Puerta, The door, Grace chapel, Praise Chapel, and so many more these days....
From your post I gather you are:
1. A Mike Neville devoted follower
2. An advocate of fellowship teaching
3. An undercover plant, (Do you really think we are stupid?) Your fellowship speech betrays you....
Jeff Watkins
Former Pastor and biggest critic of the fellowship
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Re: "APOSTLE Mike Neville...intentionally wished to brainwash all of us."
Well Said Silent no more, We were there from the beginning...And good to see you, hope you are doing well...
Jeff
Jeff
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Re: "APOSTLE Mike Neville...intentionally wished to brainwash all of us."
Hey the mouthpiece of cult chapel has shown up again...There is no need to set the record straight Jerome, We all know what the answer is...I Pastored 10 years and pioneered many places for this cult, Until I found the truth..So really,, You are the last person on here to set the record straight, We know each other..I started in pc in 1979,,,But hey keep spilling your false doctrine....your just tightening the noose....
Jeff Watkins
Former Pastor praise chapel
West Sacramento....
Jeff Watkins
Former Pastor praise chapel
West Sacramento....
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Re: Potter's House / The Door
Hi Hawk, Yes I know an extensive amount of connection between potters house and praise chapel,,,The current leader of praise chapel as you know is donna neville, and mikes brother larry, larry was a huge leadership force right under mitchell, our church in kingman arizona, held the dubious distintion of being a potters house and a praise chapel, we took over the four square church while the pastor of kingman allen cates was pastoring under both mike neville and waymon mitchell,,,The abuse of potters house and praise chapel is just alike, I was pastoring a praise chapel when the news came of the split between potters house and praise chapel...before that, neville and mitchell were thick as thieves.....
BTW the slam the door association on the internet is a group of former potter's house pastors and former members...It is a good site for info on potters house,,And just a side note,,A lot of former potters house pastors, now pastor with praise chapel...After all they really are one and the same..
Jeff Watkins
Former pastor of praise chapel west sacramento
BTW the slam the door association on the internet is a group of former potter's house pastors and former members...It is a good site for info on potters house,,And just a side note,,A lot of former potters house pastors, now pastor with praise chapel...After all they really are one and the same..
Jeff Watkins
Former pastor of praise chapel west sacramento
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Re: Praise chapel...a cult?
Do you believe in coincidences? I don't believe in coincidences. Especially, when it comes to pc. When you have two different militant pc-ites contact you on the same day when you haven't spoken to either one in several years; it means something is brewing. Probably sounds paranoid but if you were part of this you'd understand.
By saying this I may no longer be anonymous but I'm at peace with it. I saw a couple of new Kingman cowboy posts and what he says is absolutely true. Mike Mastin has been very present in different pc's. He's wayman mitchell's ex son in law. Not to mention many other ph pastors making the pc rounds.
Nothing ever changes.
By saying this I may no longer be anonymous but I'm at peace with it. I saw a couple of new Kingman cowboy posts and what he says is absolutely true. Mike Mastin has been very present in different pc's. He's wayman mitchell's ex son in law. Not to mention many other ph pastors making the pc rounds.
Nothing ever changes.
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The Satanic Temple
The Satanic Temple, co-founded by Malcolm Jarry (NYC) and Lucien Greaves (Boston), was officially registered as a religious organization in February 2014 with the State of Massachusetts as United Federation of Churches, LLC d/b/a The Satanic Temple.
Since that time, The Satanic Temple has opened chapters in 3 countries and 21 states with at least 30 domestic chapters most of which have sprung up in the last year. Members change their names when they join. By way of example, Lucien Greaves has several aliases
Proclaiming they do not believe in any gods, including Satan, who they acknowledge as a symbol of rebellion.
At the same time, they follow the Sabbat Cycles, conduct Black Masses and other rituals praising Satan, and engage in carnal activities as an acknowledgement of the carnal nature of man.
Symbolology used in their organization includes pentagrams, statues of serpents and Baphomet.
I began researching this oeganization when they successfully shut down a 65-year tradition of invocation at the City of Phoenix Council meetings.
The organization has challenged other city/state governments/schools. Their activism and expansion is so broad that I decided to create a Facebook page. New posts are added almost daily.
The Facebook page dispenses with personal opinion/dissertation. It is a repository of articles, interviews, videis, chapter information and includes supporting links to the information.
The Facebook page can be found at [www.facebook.com]
Since that time, The Satanic Temple has opened chapters in 3 countries and 21 states with at least 30 domestic chapters most of which have sprung up in the last year. Members change their names when they join. By way of example, Lucien Greaves has several aliases
Proclaiming they do not believe in any gods, including Satan, who they acknowledge as a symbol of rebellion.
At the same time, they follow the Sabbat Cycles, conduct Black Masses and other rituals praising Satan, and engage in carnal activities as an acknowledgement of the carnal nature of man.
Symbolology used in their organization includes pentagrams, statues of serpents and Baphomet.
I began researching this oeganization when they successfully shut down a 65-year tradition of invocation at the City of Phoenix Council meetings.
The organization has challenged other city/state governments/schools. Their activism and expansion is so broad that I decided to create a Facebook page. New posts are added almost daily.
The Facebook page dispenses with personal opinion/dissertation. It is a repository of articles, interviews, videis, chapter information and includes supporting links to the information.
The Facebook page can be found at [www.facebook.com]
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Re: Drug Rehab Cult Comunita Cenacolo
Wow, I never thought I would be posting to this thread again. But I was about to look at the Cenacolo website again, as I hadn't after a while, and on Yahoo I saw this site again so out of curiosity I checked it out as I hadn't been here in a while either.
It's been a few years almost since I last posted and I have now been in another religious community, this one devoted to education, for nearly four years. Given that I spent less than a year in Community my experience is not the most expensive, but I do wish to say this. In terms of its daily activities and what goes on with the program, the Community did not invent a lot of things. Sister Elvira borrowed a lot from the ways that religious communities have operated for centuries.
For example, the idea of being cut off from the outside world for a time is nothing new. In formation in my community you cannot read a newspaper and are not allowed Internet and there is certainly no contact with family for at least a year. Getting chewed out by the leadership wasn't invented by Cenacolo either. The novice masters of many a religious community over the past 2000 years have done this. I got it in Cenacolo and I've gotten it here. True, it was to a greater degree in Cenacolo, but then Cenacolo is overall more strict (though I would have to say my current experience has been even more challenging, though that is largely due to things that happened in the past four years outside of it that influenced the inside).
And you don't have to enter another community to find out Cenacolo didn't invent this stuff. All you have to do is read the Diary of St. Faustina. In it she describes an incident in which she washed dishes for the community, but some sisters were out for an event that evening and came home later, eating dinner after the others. They left their plates in the sink, and another sister noticed and scolded St. Faustina. She also made St. Faustina sit on a table and stay in silence as she washed the dishes, so that whenever another sister came by and saw St. Faustina not helping she scolded her too. She got a full round by the whole house this way. So you see, the Community never invented giving "help" or staying in silence. This is a way of community life that was borrowed from a history of strict Catholic religious life.
There are other, less challenging similarities between my current status and former time in Cenacolo, such as doing Giro Casa--four years straight (will it ever end??? Ha-ha!).
Virtually all of the labor aspects of Community come from centuries of monastic life. How did monks for centuries live but through daily hard labor and prayer?
Finally, while Cenacolo does borrow on the monastic lifestyle no one should expect to find a group of highly spiritual, loving, selfless monks living there. Everyone living in Cenacolo (and I do mean EVERYONE, which included myself) comes from broken homes and/or broken lives. Now I did not see anyone there ever abuse any animals, and the only ones that were killed were pigs killed by farmer Allen, and if I remember correctly one of our birds was once killed for its meat. Oh, and one rat because we had cats too wimpy to take him out. Now I am not at all saying that abuse wasn't done. I have no reason to doubt anyone's stories here, especially since we are talking about different people versus those who were there eight years ago. All I know is I never anything other than the above.
Some Community members have been to places like prison before, and they can bring that mentality with them. And that's what produces the things like what some of the people here experienced and I experienced. But the program is itself thoroughly monastic and Catholic in character. Not the modern, liberal, feel-good Catholicism that we sadly have today in so much of the Church, but the hard scrabble, radical reliance on God type of Catholicism that the Church so desperately needs today.
It's been a few years almost since I last posted and I have now been in another religious community, this one devoted to education, for nearly four years. Given that I spent less than a year in Community my experience is not the most expensive, but I do wish to say this. In terms of its daily activities and what goes on with the program, the Community did not invent a lot of things. Sister Elvira borrowed a lot from the ways that religious communities have operated for centuries.
For example, the idea of being cut off from the outside world for a time is nothing new. In formation in my community you cannot read a newspaper and are not allowed Internet and there is certainly no contact with family for at least a year. Getting chewed out by the leadership wasn't invented by Cenacolo either. The novice masters of many a religious community over the past 2000 years have done this. I got it in Cenacolo and I've gotten it here. True, it was to a greater degree in Cenacolo, but then Cenacolo is overall more strict (though I would have to say my current experience has been even more challenging, though that is largely due to things that happened in the past four years outside of it that influenced the inside).
And you don't have to enter another community to find out Cenacolo didn't invent this stuff. All you have to do is read the Diary of St. Faustina. In it she describes an incident in which she washed dishes for the community, but some sisters were out for an event that evening and came home later, eating dinner after the others. They left their plates in the sink, and another sister noticed and scolded St. Faustina. She also made St. Faustina sit on a table and stay in silence as she washed the dishes, so that whenever another sister came by and saw St. Faustina not helping she scolded her too. She got a full round by the whole house this way. So you see, the Community never invented giving "help" or staying in silence. This is a way of community life that was borrowed from a history of strict Catholic religious life.
There are other, less challenging similarities between my current status and former time in Cenacolo, such as doing Giro Casa--four years straight (will it ever end??? Ha-ha!).
Virtually all of the labor aspects of Community come from centuries of monastic life. How did monks for centuries live but through daily hard labor and prayer?
Finally, while Cenacolo does borrow on the monastic lifestyle no one should expect to find a group of highly spiritual, loving, selfless monks living there. Everyone living in Cenacolo (and I do mean EVERYONE, which included myself) comes from broken homes and/or broken lives. Now I did not see anyone there ever abuse any animals, and the only ones that were killed were pigs killed by farmer Allen, and if I remember correctly one of our birds was once killed for its meat. Oh, and one rat because we had cats too wimpy to take him out. Now I am not at all saying that abuse wasn't done. I have no reason to doubt anyone's stories here, especially since we are talking about different people versus those who were there eight years ago. All I know is I never anything other than the above.
Some Community members have been to places like prison before, and they can bring that mentality with them. And that's what produces the things like what some of the people here experienced and I experienced. But the program is itself thoroughly monastic and Catholic in character. Not the modern, liberal, feel-good Catholicism that we sadly have today in so much of the Church, but the hard scrabble, radical reliance on God type of Catholicism that the Church so desperately needs today.
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Re: Praise chapel...a cult?
I have been told imay not have long to live by many reputable doctors. So I do not post the following lightly.
It's amazing how people who didn't want to have anything to do with u for decades show up at your hospital bed unannounced. When they know you have been ill already for awhile.
While I wasn't mean to them or treated them badly I still had negative feelings about the visit. They act like nothing. It's kinda arrogant. Especially, when u played part in their early ministry and new them when they were no one's like the rest of us. This has to be said sometimes u should just leave well enough alone.
Or how bout all the that u have known for 25 years plus never even ask about when they know u R possibly dying. U leave the Church and not only R u shunned they pray curses over u and then show up at the end to make themselves feel better. This is not Christianity.
It's amazing how people who didn't want to have anything to do with u for decades show up at your hospital bed unannounced. When they know you have been ill already for awhile.
While I wasn't mean to them or treated them badly I still had negative feelings about the visit. They act like nothing. It's kinda arrogant. Especially, when u played part in their early ministry and new them when they were no one's like the rest of us. This has to be said sometimes u should just leave well enough alone.
Or how bout all the that u have known for 25 years plus never even ask about when they know u R possibly dying. U leave the Church and not only R u shunned they pray curses over u and then show up at the end to make themselves feel better. This is not Christianity.
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Re: Drug Rehab Cult Comunita Cenacolo
A few more things I have thought to write about.
First, in reference to any assault of a sexual nature, or really any kind of assault, that might happen in a religious community obviously needs to be dealt with. I should say this. There was a case of a man who quite possibly had the shortest time in Community that ever was when I was there. He was in it only two or three hours when he touched another guy inappropriately and said "You're cute!" He was promptly thrown out. I heard that he had then been put in a mental hospital. This is why there was traditionally a ban on homosexuals in the Community. The guys there had enough on their plate to deal with already. Now I am not saying any individual mentioned on this board is guilty of inappropriate behavior. I have no idea. I can say with certainty, however, that during my time nearly ten years ago such behavior would have been considered unthinkable and strange among just about every member, from the responsibles on down.
Also, regarding leaving the Rosary to speak on the phone with someone, well, that just happened with one of my superiors in my community tonight. Again, not judging anyone one way or the other. Just pointing out it happens with leaders of other religious communities, and this person is a consecrated religious with some 40 or more years of experience.
Every human-run institution is going to have its failings. Even Christ Himself could not (or perhaps better said CHOSE not) to keep evil from entering the hearts of His closest followers. Satan was where Christ was in the Bible, so Satan is going to be in Cenacolo as well. Yet we error if we blame the Church as established by Christ for the evils committed by its members. In the Church there are only two things perfect--the Blessed Virgin and Jesus, the latter manifested to us in the Eucharist. And the Eucharist, in the Blessed Sacrament, is at the core of our faith. It is so because it alone is both perfect and divine.
So if someone in Cenacolo sees someone, even someone in charge, breaking the rules, my answer to that would be for that person to all the more rely on the Blessed Sacrament. Because they are there for Jesus, not for anyone else. If anybody buys drugs while in Community, let the person who witnesses confront them if they feel so inclined, but let them also rely on the Eucharist for strength.
Finally, it has been my witness through my own family that the best recovery programs out there are the ones that are tough. Having watched as a family member got deeply involved in drugs, I saw the deterioration of their life that occurred as they steadfastly refused all difficult programs, opting instead for one that was outpatient and gave them maximum freedom. The problem with this approach was that it didn't work. It didn't work because the solutions to problems in life that are easiest are rarely the ones that yield great fruits. It is tough conditions that make us strong. My family member could have chosen Community. Had they done so they would have been out for years by now and their marriage may have survived. But they could not be forced to enter, and today they live alone in our family home, slowly destroying it because of a compulsive hoarding condition that began nearly ten years ago. I love this family member dearly, enough that I entered Community myself to show them it could be done, but they made the choice and today remain with a lot of difficulties (though I think the drug abuse has finally gotten better).
I hope that someday things work out for them. I hope that everyone on this board is doing well as well. Keep the Eucharist at the center. We are all screwed up by sin, our institutions of all kinds everywhere are screwed up by sin. Nothing is even remotely perfect save God. And yet I know through my experience in Lourdes that he can bring such blessings and miracles to even the most difficult situations.
God bless to all.
First, in reference to any assault of a sexual nature, or really any kind of assault, that might happen in a religious community obviously needs to be dealt with. I should say this. There was a case of a man who quite possibly had the shortest time in Community that ever was when I was there. He was in it only two or three hours when he touched another guy inappropriately and said "You're cute!" He was promptly thrown out. I heard that he had then been put in a mental hospital. This is why there was traditionally a ban on homosexuals in the Community. The guys there had enough on their plate to deal with already. Now I am not saying any individual mentioned on this board is guilty of inappropriate behavior. I have no idea. I can say with certainty, however, that during my time nearly ten years ago such behavior would have been considered unthinkable and strange among just about every member, from the responsibles on down.
Also, regarding leaving the Rosary to speak on the phone with someone, well, that just happened with one of my superiors in my community tonight. Again, not judging anyone one way or the other. Just pointing out it happens with leaders of other religious communities, and this person is a consecrated religious with some 40 or more years of experience.
Every human-run institution is going to have its failings. Even Christ Himself could not (or perhaps better said CHOSE not) to keep evil from entering the hearts of His closest followers. Satan was where Christ was in the Bible, so Satan is going to be in Cenacolo as well. Yet we error if we blame the Church as established by Christ for the evils committed by its members. In the Church there are only two things perfect--the Blessed Virgin and Jesus, the latter manifested to us in the Eucharist. And the Eucharist, in the Blessed Sacrament, is at the core of our faith. It is so because it alone is both perfect and divine.
So if someone in Cenacolo sees someone, even someone in charge, breaking the rules, my answer to that would be for that person to all the more rely on the Blessed Sacrament. Because they are there for Jesus, not for anyone else. If anybody buys drugs while in Community, let the person who witnesses confront them if they feel so inclined, but let them also rely on the Eucharist for strength.
Finally, it has been my witness through my own family that the best recovery programs out there are the ones that are tough. Having watched as a family member got deeply involved in drugs, I saw the deterioration of their life that occurred as they steadfastly refused all difficult programs, opting instead for one that was outpatient and gave them maximum freedom. The problem with this approach was that it didn't work. It didn't work because the solutions to problems in life that are easiest are rarely the ones that yield great fruits. It is tough conditions that make us strong. My family member could have chosen Community. Had they done so they would have been out for years by now and their marriage may have survived. But they could not be forced to enter, and today they live alone in our family home, slowly destroying it because of a compulsive hoarding condition that began nearly ten years ago. I love this family member dearly, enough that I entered Community myself to show them it could be done, but they made the choice and today remain with a lot of difficulties (though I think the drug abuse has finally gotten better).
I hope that someday things work out for them. I hope that everyone on this board is doing well as well. Keep the Eucharist at the center. We are all screwed up by sin, our institutions of all kinds everywhere are screwed up by sin. Nothing is even remotely perfect save God. And yet I know through my experience in Lourdes that he can bring such blessings and miracles to even the most difficult situations.
God bless to all.
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