Yes, top staffer was a guy called C.Jewell who manages the coffee shops. According to last accounts he was paid about £32k p/a. The staff bill for the schools and coffee shops is clearly shown in the branch AGM and filed accounts. Individual employees salaries are almost always confidential in UK unless a paid directors which C.Jewell is. None of the pastors are on payroll. The school and churches are one charity so there has been transfer of funds to the school to invest in staff and buildings. I think this is what Petitor thinks is objectionable. He believes the congregation somehow are being duped into giving to this. Personally, I can't see how that can be true.
↧
Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
↧
Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Hi CheeryLizard,
Yes, I agree that the annual accounts are published. It is good to hear that they are also made available in the branches as well as through Companies House.
I persoanlly see some of the detail as obscuring rather than revealing information however. Others seem to agree with this, as a number of people only realised that the church was subsidising the school once it was revealed by latigo - that was never clear form the published accounts, although the info was there. I guess that is my point - that those who attend and give their money do not really know what is going on.
I think it has been great to have some of that revealed through Latigo, and even for things like the existence of the "detailed letter" (only seen by OSCR and the 5 Members of SMC as far as I am aware) being revealed here on this forum.
The is actually quite important - the leaders of SMC are doing what they can to suppress knowledge and only admit to things when forced to do so by external agencies. They could easily take the line aspired to by Mr Black in his story about the preacher whose sins were about to be revealed - "yes, I have sinned - here are the sins others have identified, and here are a few more that are secret, but I am going to put in the public domain, because this isn't about how good I am, it is about the perfection of Christ."
In my view, they will not do this, because SMC is NOT about Christ, it is about them - THEY want be be seen as perfect, and not losing face.
On another matter, I note you say that the AGM is open to anyone. Is this really the case? Could I go along and ask questions with an expectation that they will be answered? Can the press attend?
As there are only 5 legal members of Struthers, I am assuming that must be the case - I can't see what the "AGM" is other than a public meeting, as no-one other than the 5 trustees have any status or authority other than as interested members of the public.
When is the next AGM?
Yes, I agree that the annual accounts are published. It is good to hear that they are also made available in the branches as well as through Companies House.
I persoanlly see some of the detail as obscuring rather than revealing information however. Others seem to agree with this, as a number of people only realised that the church was subsidising the school once it was revealed by latigo - that was never clear form the published accounts, although the info was there. I guess that is my point - that those who attend and give their money do not really know what is going on.
I think it has been great to have some of that revealed through Latigo, and even for things like the existence of the "detailed letter" (only seen by OSCR and the 5 Members of SMC as far as I am aware) being revealed here on this forum.
The is actually quite important - the leaders of SMC are doing what they can to suppress knowledge and only admit to things when forced to do so by external agencies. They could easily take the line aspired to by Mr Black in his story about the preacher whose sins were about to be revealed - "yes, I have sinned - here are the sins others have identified, and here are a few more that are secret, but I am going to put in the public domain, because this isn't about how good I am, it is about the perfection of Christ."
In my view, they will not do this, because SMC is NOT about Christ, it is about them - THEY want be be seen as perfect, and not losing face.
On another matter, I note you say that the AGM is open to anyone. Is this really the case? Could I go along and ask questions with an expectation that they will be answered? Can the press attend?
As there are only 5 legal members of Struthers, I am assuming that must be the case - I can't see what the "AGM" is other than a public meeting, as no-one other than the 5 trustees have any status or authority other than as interested members of the public.
When is the next AGM?
↧
↧
Re: Pastor Sun East in Colorado
Rhea, what wrote about this lady wanting people to come up and commit to here sounds very much like the woman that took "spiritual oversight" or motherhood of the church I was in many years ago, the Living Word Fellowship. Thankfully, this woman just died and there seems to be some glimmer of hope that this sort of hold might be over for the people still involved in the sect. I am glad your family had the insight to walk away.
Rhea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi-
>
> I understand your concern for your sister, and am
> sorry you are going through this. My family went
> to First Love for awhile. We left the Church over
> a year or more ago. Pastor Sun had made an altar
> call and wanted everyone that was willing to
> follow her and support her to come up. It was at
> that point that I could not commit. I know that a
> lot of the Church members have been with Pastor
> Sun for years and she has helped them out in some
> way. It just seems like you have to be all in and
> willing to follow everything she says or you don't
> fit in with the "Church Members" Did your sister
> move with them to San Antonio a month ago? What is
> your sister's name(if you can share)? I would have
> to say that when you are attending the Church (and
> have finally gotten used to how different it is),
> you start to get use to how things work there and
> their expectations.However, their big move to San
> Antonio just seems a little crazy. Would love to
> hear your thoughts please:-)
>
> Thanks!
Rhea Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi-
>
> I understand your concern for your sister, and am
> sorry you are going through this. My family went
> to First Love for awhile. We left the Church over
> a year or more ago. Pastor Sun had made an altar
> call and wanted everyone that was willing to
> follow her and support her to come up. It was at
> that point that I could not commit. I know that a
> lot of the Church members have been with Pastor
> Sun for years and she has helped them out in some
> way. It just seems like you have to be all in and
> willing to follow everything she says or you don't
> fit in with the "Church Members" Did your sister
> move with them to San Antonio a month ago? What is
> your sister's name(if you can share)? I would have
> to say that when you are attending the Church (and
> have finally gotten used to how different it is),
> you start to get use to how things work there and
> their expectations.However, their big move to San
> Antonio just seems a little crazy. Would love to
> hear your thoughts please:-)
>
> Thanks!
↧
Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Petitor
All Latigo did was show information that was already publicly available. There seems to be some assumption that the congregation either don't attend the AGMS, don't want to, or cannot read the accounts. The implicaiton that this has been a revelation was already contested on here by Clive. I think he was correct to point out that there is no "smoking gun" here when it comes to finance in SMC.
It seems to me that, after all, the accusation is that the executive is too small. If insteaad of thinking about SMC as functioning like the presbyterian church, and you realise it is more like a normal charity with a board, it all makes sense.
All Latigo did was show information that was already publicly available. There seems to be some assumption that the congregation either don't attend the AGMS, don't want to, or cannot read the accounts. The implicaiton that this has been a revelation was already contested on here by Clive. I think he was correct to point out that there is no "smoking gun" here when it comes to finance in SMC.
It seems to me that, after all, the accusation is that the executive is too small. If insteaad of thinking about SMC as functioning like the presbyterian church, and you realise it is more like a normal charity with a board, it all makes sense.
↧
Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Does the general SMC membership of the congregation receive an annual budget, which discloses in detail the salaries and compensation paid out from its funds to staff and executives?
Or is it that no one in the SMC general membership, except for a select few, actually knows exactly who receives payments and how much?
It seems like quite a bit is hidden.
Or is it that no one in the SMC general membership, except for a select few, actually knows exactly who receives payments and how much?
It seems like quite a bit is hidden.
↧
↧
Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Well, indeed. How much is earned by Mrs Spears and all those that live in the commune, how much rent do they pay, where does the money go etc. That is not openness and transparency. There are many other questions about the accounts as well, many of which have been covered elsewhere - for example, what happened to the money that was in "designated funds" and was "reallocated"? All of which is why I return to the question I asked earlier - can anyone attend the AGM and expect their questions to be answered? If is is all as open as you suggest, cheery lizard, I assume that they (and you) would welcome this.
And, cheery lizard, I am really not aware of any assumptions that have been made. What I said was, "as a number of people only realised that the church was subsidising the school once it was revealed by latigo." That is not an assumption, that is a fact. You can hypothesise and speculate all you like about whether people can or want to read accounts, the facts are that a number of people did not understand the information until it was presented by Latigo.
It is fine to have view or opinions, but please don't argue with facts. Unlike SMC, it is not about who makes the most forceful comment or who claims they know what other people are thinking.
And, cheery lizard, I am really not aware of any assumptions that have been made. What I said was, "as a number of people only realised that the church was subsidising the school once it was revealed by latigo." That is not an assumption, that is a fact. You can hypothesise and speculate all you like about whether people can or want to read accounts, the facts are that a number of people did not understand the information until it was presented by Latigo.
It is fine to have view or opinions, but please don't argue with facts. Unlike SMC, it is not about who makes the most forceful comment or who claims they know what other people are thinking.
↧
Palmerian "Catholic" Sect - its own Popes & Bling
The "Palmerian" pseudo - Catholic sect.
[www.google.com]
Going by the photographs, they have enough money for fancy buildings,
luxurious robes and one hell of a lot of bling for the "Pope".
A lot of Catholics who were disgusted by the tawdry liturgical changes after Vatican II prefer to attend "traditionalist" tridentine rite masses.
Some very exploitative types recruit in this manner. Decades ago, in the US,
Corboy attended a meeting of one such group -- turned out to be a front for
a US based group later ID'd as an abusive and exploitative cult.
So, possibly the Palmerians use old style masses, novenas, and rosary devotions as a vehicle for identifying and recruiting.
One can see that so far as the Palmerian prelates are concerned, they do
like to pile up treasure on earth rather than in heaven.
[www.google.com]
[www.google.com]
According to this article, there is a practice of members willing their
property.
Nasty. Scaring people into shunning their families, all to isolate them
and route them to will their property to make a bunch of rich men even richer than they already are.
All in the name of Jesus who died poor, no lawyer to speak for him, deserted by his buddies, betrayed by his own accountant.
[www.independent.ie]
[www.google.com]
Going by the photographs, they have enough money for fancy buildings,
luxurious robes and one hell of a lot of bling for the "Pope".
A lot of Catholics who were disgusted by the tawdry liturgical changes after Vatican II prefer to attend "traditionalist" tridentine rite masses.
Some very exploitative types recruit in this manner. Decades ago, in the US,
Corboy attended a meeting of one such group -- turned out to be a front for
a US based group later ID'd as an abusive and exploitative cult.
So, possibly the Palmerians use old style masses, novenas, and rosary devotions as a vehicle for identifying and recruiting.
One can see that so far as the Palmerian prelates are concerned, they do
like to pile up treasure on earth rather than in heaven.
[www.google.com]
[www.google.com]
According to this article, there is a practice of members willing their
property.
Nasty. Scaring people into shunning their families, all to isolate them
and route them to will their property to make a bunch of rich men even richer than they already are.
All in the name of Jesus who died poor, no lawyer to speak for him, deserted by his buddies, betrayed by his own accountant.
[www.independent.ie]
Quote
Bridget Crosbie (84) died of natural causes at her home in the Faythe area of Wexford town in September, but her death was only discovered when gardaí entered her home on November 20 and found her remains in a downstairs bedroom.
One of seven siblings, and originally from Foulksmills outside New Ross, Ms Crosbie was unmarried. A member of a group known as the 'Palmarian Catholic Church' - a highly secretive Spanish sect that broke away from the Catholic Church and has declared a series of its own 'Popes' - Bridget effectively was forced to cut herself off from her family when she became involved with the sect in the late 1970s, around the same time she returned to Ireland to look aft er her parents.
"Growing up, Bridget was just a typical Irish girl. She was great fun. She worked in hotels in England during the late sixties, was very popular, and then became a midwife. But somewhere along the line she became involved with this Palmarian crowd and everything changed," said a family member.
She added: "She told us she couldn't speak to us anymore because we weren't Palmarians. If we met her on the street she wouldn't even talk to us. It was heart-breaking. She had to wear a long dark dress all the time and a habit. She became isolated and no matter how many times we'd try to help her she wouldn't open her door or engage with us or her neighbours, who also tried to help. On numerous occasions we travelled to Clontarf to speak with the Palmarian leaders there but couldn't get inside the gates."
One neighbour, Sean O'Leary, said: "If you'd meet her on the street she might say hello, but when you tried to engage her in conversation she'd walk away."
It's estimated there are approximately 300 members of the Palmarian sect in Ireland with only around 2,000 members worldwide.
The group had its Irish headquarters in a house at number 38 Haddon Road, in the leafy Dublin suburb of Clontarf, but the property was put up for sale for €1.4m during the summer months.
Attempts to contact the Palmarian leaders in Ireland this week were unsuccessful.
Included in the group's long list of strict rules is the insistence that females must wear skirts no shorter than five fingers width below the knee, that attending non-Palmarian religious services such as weddings, funerals and christenings is banned, and that there is to be no social contact with any persons not dressed to the Palmarian dress code.
Amongst its more bizarre rules are a ban on watching boxing, voting, reading horoscopes, using candles on birthday cakes and visiting swimming pools and beaches. Television programmes that show people outside the Palmarian dress code may not be watched. Michael Garde, Director of Dialogue Ireland, an independent trust that works to promote awareness and understanding of new 'religious' movements and cultism in Ireland, told the Irish Independent: "We are regularly contacted by families who have seen a loved one lost to the Palmarian church. We are deeply concerned by the group and how it destroys families and isolates people, especially the elderly. There are also reports that the Palmarians are targeting younger people and students."
Mr Garde said there have been many examples of Irish people adjoined to the Palmarians selling their homes, or leaving their property to the group in their wills, with proceeds going to the 'church' which has its headquarters in the remote Spanish town of Palmar de Troya, where it has a lavish basilica behind high walls.
"Groups like the Palmarians have undue influence on people, they remove the rational capacity for people to deal with things. In Ireland, these groups have left behind a trail of hundreds of people no longer connected to society."
Bridget Crosbie's family want people in Ireland to be vigilant about these groups. A family member told the Irish Independent: "They are dangerous, they ruin lives and in our case they took our beloved sister from us. We don't want to see another family devastated by cults like the Palmarians."
Irish
↧
Former members of Palmerians raised in church
."Eventually the church made the rule that finally destroyed our family - when they told my mother she must leave her family. So on the 22nd of December 2004, my mother walked out on her family, without telling anyone she was leaving."
"I have also been told that all palmarians who are working are required to give 10% of their wage to the church, or to face excommunication. Talk about extortion!!!!
"(Quoted from below by "peanuthead")
Exploitation of the young
[www.boards.ie]
Exploitation of the elderly
[www.boards.ie]
28-06-2011, 14:07
"THere is also a drive on by their leaders to get the young people paired and married. It further binds them to their religion because they risk losing their families if they leave. There is no family planning for them, she will probably be subjected to a life of financial worries and pregnancy"
AsiaProd
02-11-2005, 07:46
[www.boards.ie]
Peanuthead 20-04-2008, 15:01
Peanuthead continued after being asked to be more specific.
21-04-2008, 19:25
Eschatologist 21-05-2008, 10:53
The Littleflower 11-06-2008, 01:40
Peanuthead 27-06-2008, 15:58
There are several more pages on this very informative discussion board concerning the Palmerians. One person said he or she had once been a Palmerian in the US.
[www.boards.ie]
"I have also been told that all palmarians who are working are required to give 10% of their wage to the church, or to face excommunication. Talk about extortion!!!!
"(Quoted from below by "peanuthead")
Exploitation of the young
[www.boards.ie]
Quote
Xannax "could you tell me more about the religion??my friend was born into this religion and she has left school last year, having no communication with any of her friends...we heard yesterday that she is getting married apparently its arranged?! we are concerned for her as she is only seventeen!!"
Exploitation of the elderly
[www.boards.ie]
28-06-2011, 14:07
Quote
Siobhan2310 Hi everyone, my names siobhan and i was wondering if you could help me out with some information on the abuses of the palmarites. My great aunt was previously a member, a very devote one, up until about 5 years before she died.
There were various cases of the palmarians coming into her home and stealing her things the deemed unfit and scaring her. She asked my aunt to move in to look after her and for a little protection and in exchange her will was changed(previously leaving large amounts of money to the palmarians) to giving her house and some money to my aunt.
There has been suspicions about the will and the judge will not pass it due to her cause of death(Alzheimer) and a some down right idiotic mistakes of the solicitor, so long story short the judge wants to talk to the palmarians to decide on the will.
Not only will this leave my aunt homeless and broke it'll also fund the terrible acts of the cult. IT is unfair and quite frankly ridiculous that it got to this stage, so any information would be of a great help. Thanks.
"THere is also a drive on by their leaders to get the young people paired and married. It further binds them to their religion because they risk losing their families if they leave. There is no family planning for them, she will probably be subjected to a life of financial worries and pregnancy"
Quote
This religion started with a group of fervent traditionalist Catholics coming together about 30 something years ago. It's main focus was traditional Catholic rites and prayer and penance at the beginning but it has evolved into something quite different now where it is less about tradition and more about complete control of its members through fear of damnation and prophesies of calamities to come.
In other words it is a cult.
The members just follow in blind obedience, they no longer have the ability to question what they are being told or think things through.
Your friend has been told that there will be a nuclear world war in 2009 and she is probably a very frightened young girl who wants to have something of a life before that happens. THere is also a drive on by their leaders to get the young people paired and married. It further binds them to their religion because they risk losing their families if they leave. There is no family planning for them, she will probably be subjected to a life of financial worries and pregnancy.
AsiaProd
02-11-2005, 07:46
[www.boards.ie]
Quote
That is not in fact correct, there is quite a lot known about this church. Established by an insurance broker who claimed to have had a visitation from the Virgin Mary who asked him to clean up the Church and who was mystically crowned Pope by Jesus Christ in a vision. I have not heard one this far out in a long time. IMHO they seem to be rather a dodgy crowd. There is a small Irish twist at the end of the following article:
The Palmarian Catholic Church (One Holy Catholic Apostolic and Palmarian Church) is a schismatic sect of the Roman Catholic Church with its own pope opposed to the Bishop of Rome. The Palmarian Church was established in 1975 by Clemente Domínguez, an insurance broker from Seville, Spain, who claimed the Virgin Mary appeared to him at a shrine outside the small village of El Palmar de Troya in Andalucia with instructions to rid the Roman Catholic Church of "heresy and progressivism."
He set up his own Holy See in Seville in 1978 claiming he had been mystically crowned Pope by Jesus Christ in a vision. He took the name Pope Gregory XVII and named his own cardinals. Uniquely, the Popes of the Palmarian Church do not claim to be the titular Bishop of Rome, rather they claim that Jesus mystically transferred the position of Patriarch of the West and Supreme Pontiff to the Episcopal see of Palmar de Troya. Mainstream Catholics (most sedevacantist and mysticalist claimants) disagree that the Papacy can be transferred from the See of Rome based on personal revelations. Related to that? Catholic doctrine holds that personal revelations are not universally binding on the whole Church.
Palmarian Pope Gregory XVII called the body conventionally recognized as the official Catholic Church a false church, saying "John Paul is seated on Rome's seven hills and holds in his hand the golden cup of filth and fornication." He excommunicated Pope John Paul II. He also canonized Francisco Franco and Christopher Columbus as saints.
Upon Domínguez' death in March 2005, Manuel Alonso Corral succeeded him as the Palmarian Pope Peter II. According to the Prophecy of the Popes (controversially accredited to St. Malachy of Ireland and deemed a forgery by many Catholics), "Petrus Romanus" (Peter the Roman) would be the final Pope.
You can read more at:
[www.wandea.org.pl]
Peanuthead 20-04-2008, 15:01
Quote
Palmarian Church
.
I have alot of experience with this church as an ex-member. I can assure you that they are every bit as troublesome as you have heard, and more so. They are a dangerous group of people, a group you should steer very clear of.I can tell you more if you wish, just let me know.
Peanuthead continued after being asked to be more specific.
21-04-2008, 19:25
Quote
Yes, I can be more specific:
They are an extremely controlling religion, who recruit members and then force them to leave their families. I know as this is what happened to my family. My mother was forced to walk out on her husband and four children, as this is 'god's will'. This is a short version of my story.
I was born into the Palmarian religion, as were my three siblings. My mother was introduced to the religion when she was a teenager. She met my father, and, like any religion he had to convert to marry her. At the beginning it was ok. The rules of the religion were strict, the girls must wear dresses only, no trousers. Dresses must be at least four finger-widths below the knee. Sleeves must cover the wrists, no short sleeves, tops should have a full neck, your neckline should never be exposed. You must always wear socks, and when older, pop socks, never tights or bare feet. Men were not allowed to wear shorts, or short sleeves, or have an open neck, or wear denim either. This was hard to follow, but you got used to it, and to be honest, i didnt mind, because alot of what young people wear today is a bit immoral!!!! However, as time went on, things got worse. You would accept what you couldnt do, and take comfort in what you could do, like watch the tv, listen to the radio, play with your friends, read books, etc...
But soon them things were to be forbidden too. Any music which contained electric guitars, or any pop music was forbidden. Only country music was allowed. I remember being subjected to hours and hours of Garth Brooks, Patsy Cline and Glen Campbell. Now Im not saying anything negative about them as artists, but c'mon, for a youngster?? Watch tv? No way!! That was the devils work. I remember my sister and I used to love watching Home and Away. Imagine our upset when this was also taken away from us. As for reading books, well, following the priests direction my mother went through all of our school books, and cut out any references to magic, or sex. Now I understand parents wanting to watch what their children are reading/watching, but this all went way beyond anything!! How many religions do you know of that have classed the reading of Harry Potter as a sin?? So we were still allowed to play with our friends you ask?? Well yes, so long as their parents were married. Since I have left the religion that rule has changed and they are now forbidden to have any friends outside the religion.
I remember as a child, physically not fitting in because of my long baggy loose clothing(to cover up my body and prevent man from sin) and my long dresses. I know this sounds silly but think back to how important fitting in was when you were a child! I remember when I went to secondary school, I used to stay in my uniform all day monday to friday, because it was the only skirt i could wear which made me feel part of the group.
As time went by, my father left the religion. Shortly afterwards we (the children) also left. My mother remained a devout palmarian. It hurt her feelings that we left, but she was too convinced that she was doing the right thing to second think things for herself. I moved out when I started going to college, I was disowned by her because one of the lodgers in the house I rented was gay. Eventually the church made the rule that finally destroyed our family - when they told my mother she must leave her family. So on the 22nd of December 2004, my mother walked out on her family, without telling anyone she was leaving. She left a very obsure note that didnt explain anything. The least she could have done in my opinion is explain to him that this was a rule the religion had made. He may have understood, instead of being left to wonder why she left. However we were always sure the Palmarians were somehow behind it. My mother would have been the main earner in our home, so as well as leaving my father emotionally crippled, he was in a serious financial state. It ha s been almost 4 years now, and although she lives about 4 miles from our home, she has never once been in touch with us, nor never will. While I was in college, she would even visit the restaurant I worked in, all I ever got was a vacant stare. Because of the stress of this situation (being the eldest - alot tends to fall on your shoulders) I myself have become severely depressed. I am currently still getting over it, but with the help of my fabulous boyfriend and amazing friends, I am getting there. But my family has fallen apart since then We get on when we have to, but there is no family spirit between us.
Eschatologist 21-05-2008, 10:53
Quote
Wow, that's gotta be tough. Thank you for sharing your story with us.
I know a family of Palmarians, and though they seem quite nice and polite the patriarch is indeed very controlling. He even took his 16 year old daughter out of school so she could begin working. I've been told that third level education is frowned upon - this really ticks me off when I think of this guy's daughter and how he's slashed her future prospects by removing her from school. It's not right! I'd hate having to wear those long skirts though, although they do wear tights and push their sleeves up. Woo, women's lib!
The Littleflower 11-06-2008, 01:40
Quote
Have you heard the newest thing(rule)? Well, I'll tell you what I heard from 1 of my sisters, that is that when speaking to someone on the phone palmarians are suppose to ask what the person is wearing on the other end-too make sure they are dressed descent. Also grocerie(and other produsts) if there are sayings or animals pictured on item, they have to take a black marker and block out what is concidered worldy!
Peanuthead 27-06-2008, 15:58
Quote
If there are animals on pictures of groceries, they have to black them out with a marker????????? oh my god, why??
I did hear about the phone call thing, my mother is very much involved with the church still. I have also been told that all palmarians who are working are required to give 10% of their wage to the church, or to face excommunication. Talk about extortion!!!!
What were your experiences of living under the palmarian church? I see you say you were only half following the rules for a while, I think thats the case with everyone who leaves, its a gradual thing.
Keep in touch
PeanutHead
There are several more pages on this very informative discussion board concerning the Palmerians. One person said he or she had once been a Palmerian in the US.
[www.boards.ie]
↧
Re: Drug Rehab Cult Comunita Cenacolo
For 9 months from January to October of this year I lived on Cenacolo's main American campus in St. Augustine Florida. These people - Community Cenacolo as a whole, Our Lady of Hope, and the leadership of Our Lady of Hope - are no good. They stole things and money from me and my family; they lied to me and my family. And I have a host of other complaints to make against them.
Over the course of my time at one of their two communes in Florida, I became increasingly disgusted with the leadership. Marco, the 35 year-old Italian consecrated with about 12 years in Community who last year came to be in charge of Community America along with Albino and Joyce, on several occasions inappropriately grabbed Juno, a 19 year-old young man for whom he had come to have an intense, creepy obsession, in the testicles and other private areas. Marco had Juno sleeping in the same room. He ensured that Juno was working with him virtually all day every day. On occasion Marco had very strange private conversations with the young man, telling him that they would be priests together in Community forever. (Juno was obviously very much "weirded out" by these talks.)
Eventually, the object of Marco's deep and strange affection was transferred to Our Lady of Joyful Hope in Alabama; the consecrated shortly afterward saying in "Revision of Life" that Juno's absence made him feel as if his own "heart had been torn out." But I'm not sure why Marco was so upset considering that, wouldn't you know, it turned out that Marco had planned to himself transfer to Alabama a few weeks following Juno's move. At Our Lady of Joyful Hope, Marco continued to keep Juno close to him and to grant him special favors, even allowing Juno to use a computer to check Facebook and print pictures of girls the young man had known in the outside world. (Communication with the outside world, apart from very infrequent trips into town and to other houses, is almost non-existent for the typical American member of Community; when it does happen it is tightly controlled and monitored, and would certainly never involve electronic means of communication. Facebook is a huge no-no.). This extremely liberal allowance and incredible bending of the rules was made by the same man who had screamed at the entire house after a radio had been discovered in someone's possessions.
The "responsibles" - that is, the top leaders of the particular community in which I lived - Chris Felix and Jeremy Reiser were guilty of killing wildlife and feral cats and kittens in the area in cruel and heinous ways. These two could be real bullies, at one point taking me alone deep into the woods to intimidate and scream at me. If it's necessary to pick which responsible is worse, the choice is decidedly Jeremy Rieser. A tall and bulky 38 year-old man, Jeremy is a violent and mentally unstable bully. He takes out his anger and aggression in unhealthy, damaging, and sometimes shocking ways. For instance, he once remarked in casual conversation about a fantasy he had had to rape and do violent things to a girl of 16 he had seen at the beach. One morning while in a terrible mood he vented his anger and frustration by chewing out a 17 year-old boy (Pick on someone your own size!). Jeremy will often speak in a threatening way towards someone who has especially angered him, threatening to or expressing the desire to smash in the head of the person he is addressing. In his treatment of animal life he is, to say the least, extremely rough and violent; and, considering the bullying and the rape fantasy, I get the idea that he takes pleasure in engaging in this sort of behavior. I already mentioned that he and Chris killed feral cats and kittens, but he also has smashed a baby bird with a hoe and has been engaged in an ongoing obsessive crusade against the snakes on the property, nailing them to trees and smashing their heads into pavement. (I have no problem with the necessary eradication of venomous snakes, and I understand that killing a snake is a less serious matter than killing a large mammal. But Jeremy's behavior is childish; and both the pleasure he takes in killing snakes and the way in which he kills them are disturbing.).
As you can see, when I call Jeremy "mentally unstable", I mean it quite literally. But this insanity is more than extreme aggression. He talks about demons - literal evil spiritual intelligences - which he encounters and which torment him. For Jeremy, everything in his surroundings and immediate experience is full of meaning and signs of the working of intelligent, incorporeal forces. (For instance: "I looked at the window and could see the outline of the shield of St. Michael." and "That was the devil speaking through you!"). Among the many ways he putts off and alarms guests are the descriptions he gives to them of his encounters with angels and demons. It is nothing short of amazing that Mr. Rieser was given a position of trust, and that he is likely to be the next head responsible of Our Lady of Hope. For him to be in the position he holds, several people are guilty of serious lapses of judgement.
Marco, Chris Felix, and Jeremy Reiser are not isolated cases. In the past, responsibles of the two male communities in Florida have been guilty of purchasing drugs with money stolen from a house budget, using drugs at Our Lady of Hope and Mary Immaculate, using inhalants (I've seen "older guys" doing this.), torturing wildlife, giving to themselves limited slots available for religious pilgrimages, and taking advantage of their access to vehicles to sneak off in the middle of the night and have sex with girls from Maria Gorretti.
A mean and rude person, Albino is, in my opinion, himself unfit for leadership. One gets the impression that he has contempt for the young men in the program. For those in Community he has nothing but insults, belittling words, and barked orders. He disregards the rules and procedures of Community life and functioning, speaking and using his smart phone during rosaries and interrupting people "maintaining their commitments" to make frivolous and unserious remarks. Moreover, I have seen him mock a mentally challenged individual before the house. These sorts of behavior show disrespect for those struggling with the difficulties of living Community life.
How can the American Community leadership be so consistently horrible? Clearly there is some sort of systematic issue.
There are other problems with Community Cenacolo besides the obvious bad qualities of much of its leadership. I think it's a sort of cult; it at least has many cultish qualities, and life in a Cenacolo community is much like one would picture life in a cult. It is communal life, and life in which the leadership controls and monitors all access and interaction with the outside world, as rare as such access and interaction occurs. All letters coming in or out of the community, including letters to or from parents, are read by some member of the leadership (Not merely checking the insides of envelopes and packages for contraband, which would be understandable, but reading the entire text of letters.). According to Chris Felix, the leadership used to alter the text of some letters sent from members to parents before those letters were sent out.
Communication between members of an individual commune is tightly controlled as well. "Young guys", people with less than six months in Community, are not allowed to be alone with, or even speak to, each other.
Ex-members who have left without Community's or Albino's blessing, who have "left too early", are vilified or said to have been clearly in the wrong.
There is an intense devotion to Mother Elvira, the founder of Community Cenacolo. Her picture is displayed prominently in Cenacolo dining halls, sometimes surrounded by rays of sunlight. Often when viewing videos of the nun, "older guys" will openly weep. Stories are told of her visiting members in dreams. "She will be a saint!" it is said.
Community Cenacolo America caters to the rich and the extremely wealthy. This is a complaint that has been made by many current and past members. Community is close to wealthy families in Florida and to a group of wealthy "doomsday preppers" in Alabama. (The latter donated the property - which had been intended to be a safe haven after Y2K - on which Our Lady of Joyful Hope is situated.). A good proportion of the young men living in the houses in Florida and Alabama come from families in high socio-economic groups. From my experience and from what I've seen, special favors - quick transfers to better houses and to Europe, soft treatment, being dispensed from certain rules, leadership positions, etc. - are granted to members with rich families.
I have said that the organization is not above lying. This was case with their summer newsletter of this year. Contained in the newsletter was a single article, a supposed "testimony" given by Erica, a Cenacolo missionary. But Erica complained that she had never given the testimony, that the words within the testimony that were hers were taken from an application essay she had written for college, and that she had no idea how anyone from Community Cenacolo had gotten a hold of her essay. One wonders who was responsible for putting words in the missionary's mouth, and if the guilty party may have been Joyce, Albino, or both.
Community is very careful about members' access to and interaction with guests. I have seen people advised to lie to and withhold information from young men at Community for the "working days" period - an orientation phase intended to allow the potential Community entry to discern if he wants to join. Before I left, it was discovered that someone had told a person on orientation that Community "sucked", and that this comment had played an important role in convincing that person not to join. For this reason, the entire house received a stern, angry lecture and stream of insults from Albino: "You are losers. You were on the bottom of the society outside." No "safe", normal group would react to derogatory remarks against it and dissent in such an angry and dramatic way.
I'd rather be on the bottom of normal society than a member of any sort in Community Cenacolo.
Over the course of my time at one of their two communes in Florida, I became increasingly disgusted with the leadership. Marco, the 35 year-old Italian consecrated with about 12 years in Community who last year came to be in charge of Community America along with Albino and Joyce, on several occasions inappropriately grabbed Juno, a 19 year-old young man for whom he had come to have an intense, creepy obsession, in the testicles and other private areas. Marco had Juno sleeping in the same room. He ensured that Juno was working with him virtually all day every day. On occasion Marco had very strange private conversations with the young man, telling him that they would be priests together in Community forever. (Juno was obviously very much "weirded out" by these talks.)
Eventually, the object of Marco's deep and strange affection was transferred to Our Lady of Joyful Hope in Alabama; the consecrated shortly afterward saying in "Revision of Life" that Juno's absence made him feel as if his own "heart had been torn out." But I'm not sure why Marco was so upset considering that, wouldn't you know, it turned out that Marco had planned to himself transfer to Alabama a few weeks following Juno's move. At Our Lady of Joyful Hope, Marco continued to keep Juno close to him and to grant him special favors, even allowing Juno to use a computer to check Facebook and print pictures of girls the young man had known in the outside world. (Communication with the outside world, apart from very infrequent trips into town and to other houses, is almost non-existent for the typical American member of Community; when it does happen it is tightly controlled and monitored, and would certainly never involve electronic means of communication. Facebook is a huge no-no.). This extremely liberal allowance and incredible bending of the rules was made by the same man who had screamed at the entire house after a radio had been discovered in someone's possessions.
The "responsibles" - that is, the top leaders of the particular community in which I lived - Chris Felix and Jeremy Reiser were guilty of killing wildlife and feral cats and kittens in the area in cruel and heinous ways. These two could be real bullies, at one point taking me alone deep into the woods to intimidate and scream at me. If it's necessary to pick which responsible is worse, the choice is decidedly Jeremy Rieser. A tall and bulky 38 year-old man, Jeremy is a violent and mentally unstable bully. He takes out his anger and aggression in unhealthy, damaging, and sometimes shocking ways. For instance, he once remarked in casual conversation about a fantasy he had had to rape and do violent things to a girl of 16 he had seen at the beach. One morning while in a terrible mood he vented his anger and frustration by chewing out a 17 year-old boy (Pick on someone your own size!). Jeremy will often speak in a threatening way towards someone who has especially angered him, threatening to or expressing the desire to smash in the head of the person he is addressing. In his treatment of animal life he is, to say the least, extremely rough and violent; and, considering the bullying and the rape fantasy, I get the idea that he takes pleasure in engaging in this sort of behavior. I already mentioned that he and Chris killed feral cats and kittens, but he also has smashed a baby bird with a hoe and has been engaged in an ongoing obsessive crusade against the snakes on the property, nailing them to trees and smashing their heads into pavement. (I have no problem with the necessary eradication of venomous snakes, and I understand that killing a snake is a less serious matter than killing a large mammal. But Jeremy's behavior is childish; and both the pleasure he takes in killing snakes and the way in which he kills them are disturbing.).
As you can see, when I call Jeremy "mentally unstable", I mean it quite literally. But this insanity is more than extreme aggression. He talks about demons - literal evil spiritual intelligences - which he encounters and which torment him. For Jeremy, everything in his surroundings and immediate experience is full of meaning and signs of the working of intelligent, incorporeal forces. (For instance: "I looked at the window and could see the outline of the shield of St. Michael." and "That was the devil speaking through you!"). Among the many ways he putts off and alarms guests are the descriptions he gives to them of his encounters with angels and demons. It is nothing short of amazing that Mr. Rieser was given a position of trust, and that he is likely to be the next head responsible of Our Lady of Hope. For him to be in the position he holds, several people are guilty of serious lapses of judgement.
Marco, Chris Felix, and Jeremy Reiser are not isolated cases. In the past, responsibles of the two male communities in Florida have been guilty of purchasing drugs with money stolen from a house budget, using drugs at Our Lady of Hope and Mary Immaculate, using inhalants (I've seen "older guys" doing this.), torturing wildlife, giving to themselves limited slots available for religious pilgrimages, and taking advantage of their access to vehicles to sneak off in the middle of the night and have sex with girls from Maria Gorretti.
A mean and rude person, Albino is, in my opinion, himself unfit for leadership. One gets the impression that he has contempt for the young men in the program. For those in Community he has nothing but insults, belittling words, and barked orders. He disregards the rules and procedures of Community life and functioning, speaking and using his smart phone during rosaries and interrupting people "maintaining their commitments" to make frivolous and unserious remarks. Moreover, I have seen him mock a mentally challenged individual before the house. These sorts of behavior show disrespect for those struggling with the difficulties of living Community life.
How can the American Community leadership be so consistently horrible? Clearly there is some sort of systematic issue.
There are other problems with Community Cenacolo besides the obvious bad qualities of much of its leadership. I think it's a sort of cult; it at least has many cultish qualities, and life in a Cenacolo community is much like one would picture life in a cult. It is communal life, and life in which the leadership controls and monitors all access and interaction with the outside world, as rare as such access and interaction occurs. All letters coming in or out of the community, including letters to or from parents, are read by some member of the leadership (Not merely checking the insides of envelopes and packages for contraband, which would be understandable, but reading the entire text of letters.). According to Chris Felix, the leadership used to alter the text of some letters sent from members to parents before those letters were sent out.
Communication between members of an individual commune is tightly controlled as well. "Young guys", people with less than six months in Community, are not allowed to be alone with, or even speak to, each other.
Ex-members who have left without Community's or Albino's blessing, who have "left too early", are vilified or said to have been clearly in the wrong.
There is an intense devotion to Mother Elvira, the founder of Community Cenacolo. Her picture is displayed prominently in Cenacolo dining halls, sometimes surrounded by rays of sunlight. Often when viewing videos of the nun, "older guys" will openly weep. Stories are told of her visiting members in dreams. "She will be a saint!" it is said.
Community Cenacolo America caters to the rich and the extremely wealthy. This is a complaint that has been made by many current and past members. Community is close to wealthy families in Florida and to a group of wealthy "doomsday preppers" in Alabama. (The latter donated the property - which had been intended to be a safe haven after Y2K - on which Our Lady of Joyful Hope is situated.). A good proportion of the young men living in the houses in Florida and Alabama come from families in high socio-economic groups. From my experience and from what I've seen, special favors - quick transfers to better houses and to Europe, soft treatment, being dispensed from certain rules, leadership positions, etc. - are granted to members with rich families.
I have said that the organization is not above lying. This was case with their summer newsletter of this year. Contained in the newsletter was a single article, a supposed "testimony" given by Erica, a Cenacolo missionary. But Erica complained that she had never given the testimony, that the words within the testimony that were hers were taken from an application essay she had written for college, and that she had no idea how anyone from Community Cenacolo had gotten a hold of her essay. One wonders who was responsible for putting words in the missionary's mouth, and if the guilty party may have been Joyce, Albino, or both.
Community is very careful about members' access to and interaction with guests. I have seen people advised to lie to and withhold information from young men at Community for the "working days" period - an orientation phase intended to allow the potential Community entry to discern if he wants to join. Before I left, it was discovered that someone had told a person on orientation that Community "sucked", and that this comment had played an important role in convincing that person not to join. For this reason, the entire house received a stern, angry lecture and stream of insults from Albino: "You are losers. You were on the bottom of the society outside." No "safe", normal group would react to derogatory remarks against it and dissent in such an angry and dramatic way.
I'd rather be on the bottom of normal society than a member of any sort in Community Cenacolo.
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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Petitor
Speaking of being short on facts let me correct you.
Yes anyone can go to the AGMs.
The "commune" as you call it, is a private home so frankly it would be none of your business who rents a room in it.
There is a house owned by SMC referred to in the public accounts as "Fidra operations". Is it unusual, illegal or in any way suspect for charities to own property and rent them out? No it is not.
School salary costs are also in the accounts. It is hardly difficult to work out what the average pay is. By my calcluation it's £25k. Well below the market rate for most teachers. I know my employer (nothing to do with SMC) is not at liberty to tell the general public my individual salary. Is yours?
As for "a number of people not realising ... etc.". Well, how big is "a number"? Let's be serious here. If your church made an executive decision and bought a school, would it never occur to you to wonder where the money came from?
Speaking of being short on facts let me correct you.
Yes anyone can go to the AGMs.
The "commune" as you call it, is a private home so frankly it would be none of your business who rents a room in it.
There is a house owned by SMC referred to in the public accounts as "Fidra operations". Is it unusual, illegal or in any way suspect for charities to own property and rent them out? No it is not.
School salary costs are also in the accounts. It is hardly difficult to work out what the average pay is. By my calcluation it's £25k. Well below the market rate for most teachers. I know my employer (nothing to do with SMC) is not at liberty to tell the general public my individual salary. Is yours?
As for "a number of people not realising ... etc.". Well, how big is "a number"? Let's be serious here. If your church made an executive decision and bought a school, would it never occur to you to wonder where the money came from?
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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
cheerylizard :
You have disclosed your calculation regarding teacher salaries.
Again, what is your calculation concerning the salaries and compensation packages paid out to SMC leaders?
Please break it down.
You have disclosed your calculation regarding teacher salaries.
Again, what is your calculation concerning the salaries and compensation packages paid out to SMC leaders?
Please break it down.
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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
CheeryLizard, once again you put words in my mouth. I never said I wanted to know who was in the commune. A very political sort of answer, changing what I have asked and commenting on what you imagine I have said rather than what I actually said.
Good to see you recognise "the commune" however (even if you would not use that word), and link it with the "Fidra operations" in the accounts. I could have been talking about somewhere down in London or elsewhere, but you seem to be confident in your assumption I am talking about "Fidra". Interesting that you made this link.
OK,so you are saying it is a private home, but is also owned by the church. Why do the church own a private home? Is it just to make money, or does it have some other purpose - to offer support to residents for example? Is that not a legitimate question? Is it not also reasonable to ask whether the rent is subsidised in some way by the church, or is it the opposite - very high rents to achieve more income for the church? Who knows? Are there rules for living there? This is a charity we are talking about, not some sort of private enterprise.
Someone does presumably know how big Fidra is and How and how many people live in it however. That might be interesting information.
I think you might be right in one aspect however. Wikipedia describes a commune as:
A commune (the French word appearing in the 12th century from Medieval Latin communia, meaning a large gathering of people sharing a common life; from Latin communis, things held in common)[1] is an intentional community of people living together, sharing common interests, property, possessions, resources, and, in some communes, work and income and assets. In addition to the communal economy, consensus decision-making, non-hierarchical structures and ecological living have become important core principles for many communes. Andrew Jacobs of The New York Times wrote that, contrary to popular misconceptions, "most communes of the '90s are not free-love refuges for flower children, but well-ordered, financially solvent cooperatives where pragmatics, not psychedelics, rule the day."[2] There are many contemporary intentional communities all over the world, a list of which can be found at the Fellowship for Intentional Community(FIC).[3]
I doubt there is any consensus decision-making so I guess I have to withdraw the word.
As for your comment about "a number of people" you are again attempting blatant political manipulation. I said a number of people only understood that the church subsidised the school after it was pointed to by Latigo. You said that wasn't the case. I was right and you were wrong: simple as that. Yet you are somehow trying to argue that it was still me that was wrong. Well, why not - never let the facts get in the way, of a good story, huh? Lets shift the goalposts instead of admitting the argument as it was originally stated has been concluded and you were wrong.
And there is a huge difference between capital expenditure and an ongoing revenue subsidy. Of course it requires capital to make a purchase: that is very different to one of the uses of the collection plate being to subsidise private education on an ongoing basis.
Good to see you recognise "the commune" however (even if you would not use that word), and link it with the "Fidra operations" in the accounts. I could have been talking about somewhere down in London or elsewhere, but you seem to be confident in your assumption I am talking about "Fidra". Interesting that you made this link.
OK,so you are saying it is a private home, but is also owned by the church. Why do the church own a private home? Is it just to make money, or does it have some other purpose - to offer support to residents for example? Is that not a legitimate question? Is it not also reasonable to ask whether the rent is subsidised in some way by the church, or is it the opposite - very high rents to achieve more income for the church? Who knows? Are there rules for living there? This is a charity we are talking about, not some sort of private enterprise.
Someone does presumably know how big Fidra is and How and how many people live in it however. That might be interesting information.
I think you might be right in one aspect however. Wikipedia describes a commune as:
A commune (the French word appearing in the 12th century from Medieval Latin communia, meaning a large gathering of people sharing a common life; from Latin communis, things held in common)[1] is an intentional community of people living together, sharing common interests, property, possessions, resources, and, in some communes, work and income and assets. In addition to the communal economy, consensus decision-making, non-hierarchical structures and ecological living have become important core principles for many communes. Andrew Jacobs of The New York Times wrote that, contrary to popular misconceptions, "most communes of the '90s are not free-love refuges for flower children, but well-ordered, financially solvent cooperatives where pragmatics, not psychedelics, rule the day."[2] There are many contemporary intentional communities all over the world, a list of which can be found at the Fellowship for Intentional Community(FIC).[3]
I doubt there is any consensus decision-making so I guess I have to withdraw the word.
As for your comment about "a number of people" you are again attempting blatant political manipulation. I said a number of people only understood that the church subsidised the school after it was pointed to by Latigo. You said that wasn't the case. I was right and you were wrong: simple as that. Yet you are somehow trying to argue that it was still me that was wrong. Well, why not - never let the facts get in the way, of a good story, huh? Lets shift the goalposts instead of admitting the argument as it was originally stated has been concluded and you were wrong.
And there is a huge difference between capital expenditure and an ongoing revenue subsidy. Of course it requires capital to make a purchase: that is very different to one of the uses of the collection plate being to subsidise private education on an ongoing basis.
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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
I don’t know if any of you saw the programme called “Trapped in a cult”, which was shown a way back on Friday 21st August. Long time ago, I know, but I had recorded it but not really had a change to look at it until this weekend.
I though the programme included some quite important comments about what is meant by a cult and how it affects people. I was particularly interested in the final statement, made by the leader of one of the organisations that was featured.
The statement was in response to the testimony of a person who had featured in the programme and had been adversely affected by the organisation. The statement was:
[The organisation] disputes all of [the person’s] allegations, points out that [the person’s] involvement with the centre was some time ago. [She] says that members of the centre are not isolated or trapped, they lead normal lives, that [the person] knew what joining the centre would entail and was not pressurised into actions. [She] says the centre has been cleared of any wrong-doing. She does not agree that the centre can be described as a cult and says that members are empowered to make their own decisions.
I am not for a minute comparing the beliefs and actions of the group in the TV programme with SMC, but I did find the above statement very interesting, as it could easily be the words of someone from SMC. I guess that is my point – that someone making a statement like the one above is not enough, we have to examine whether the statement is true - and that means examining various points of view, not blindly accepting the words of one small group.
I though the programme included some quite important comments about what is meant by a cult and how it affects people. I was particularly interested in the final statement, made by the leader of one of the organisations that was featured.
The statement was in response to the testimony of a person who had featured in the programme and had been adversely affected by the organisation. The statement was:
[The organisation] disputes all of [the person’s] allegations, points out that [the person’s] involvement with the centre was some time ago. [She] says that members of the centre are not isolated or trapped, they lead normal lives, that [the person] knew what joining the centre would entail and was not pressurised into actions. [She] says the centre has been cleared of any wrong-doing. She does not agree that the centre can be described as a cult and says that members are empowered to make their own decisions.
I am not for a minute comparing the beliefs and actions of the group in the TV programme with SMC, but I did find the above statement very interesting, as it could easily be the words of someone from SMC. I guess that is my point – that someone making a statement like the one above is not enough, we have to examine whether the statement is true - and that means examining various points of view, not blindly accepting the words of one small group.
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Re: Kirkby Christian Fellowship
hi lala people still look here thanks FoR posting.its no meant to be anything bad about goth clothes' its that kcF look down on people out there so when we see people dressing different who went to kcf rather ironic??? nice to see people enjoying heaven sEnt,the people jusT don't know the history of kcf.they don't know that the lovely dave d haD to travel all the way to Bradford to worship because he couldn't go to thewacky fellowship anymore.what that poor man must Have gone through.time will not erase the awful things that have gone on at the fellowship. kcf you have caused a lot of pain,you should not look down on anybody the people you dislike are loved by god they are of eternal worth.kirbylala you are loved and not a meff.kcf you will be asked by god why did you turn your back on my son/daughter god sees through your excuses he isn't on kcfs side.make it up now.
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Re: Kirkby Christian Fellowship
All the smiling faces at kcf taking interest In other people's children and families, when behind those smiles there is hypocrisy the same people don't even bother with their own families and grandchildren who no longer go to the meetings.its saD that many of the young people have been totally put off following the Lord by the totalitarian experience they had at the fellowship. lives are still damaged from years ago this still matters. Some of the people who have left are still blessed by the lord and bless others in the lord .try in the privacy of your home to type abusive churches in youtube you're not doing anything wrong. There is help. obviously some are always going to just believe everything they're told but some know there are problems with kcf. I am pleased with all the views of these posts , i hhaven't gone aWay. Thank you.
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Re: The Secret Place Ministry Center / Vision Life Ministries / NAR
I have studied the history of these movements and I appreciate your replies. Its all about money, attention, control, and demonizing anyone who gets in the way. I recently ran into a guy that works for The Secret Place Ministry Center here in Springtown, Texas and he asked me how things were going. I told him things are going ok and life continues to throw some problems my way. His immediate response was 'You need deliverance!' My first thought was to tell this kid to stick it, but instead I told him I dont 'need' any of that. I asked him to look at the sign on The Secret Place building and how it advertises Bible Study and 12-Step recovery and I asked him besides 'all of that' what do they really do there? What do they really do in there? His reply was scripted the same way I was taught to script it... 'We do deliverance, breaking curses, inner healing, closing spirit portals, sanctification' etc. Blah blah blah. I had to stop him and just make the remark that if you think the way they do all those things are good.. then why do you HIDE them from the public? Why cant you put all that on the sign outside the building? This guy was dumb-founded and had no answer. Case Closed.
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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
Is this organisation linked in any way to Destiny Ministries run by Andrew Owen? It's just that I've known a few people who have gone to both.
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Re: Pastor Sun Hui East First Love Harvest Church Strong Foundations Films
I was a member of this church at a young age and the older and more versed in the Bible I become, the more horrified I am at the happenings I experienced. The church worships its leader and her son. Her son is elevated as near perfect and his every action is praised and empowered. Though he too is subject to his mother (the pastor)'s unyielding authority, his corruption is glorified. He seeks out younger girls that he knows will not stand up to his manipulation or his mothers. He dated a girl of 13 years old while he was 20 and verbally abused and manipulated her. Rather than disciplining him, the church ostracized the young girl once she had found her voice and broken off the relationship of two years. Sun's church operates around fear, shame, and guilt. The church is very 'spiritually' driven and yet the spirit it is operating in is questionable. Anybody else who has experienced the corruption of Sun East I encourage you to post your experiences. She is a false prophet and her actions should not continue to be tolerated as she operates under the guise of the name of Jesus. I am available for discussion and am willing to help anyone who needs it concerning this group. You are welcome to contact me.
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Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church
No, it doesn't have any links with Destiny churches or ministries run by Andrew Owen. SMC leaders and members do not mix with other Pentecostal groups/churches nor do they involve themselves with other church-related ministries, as a rule. There are some exceptions in recent times, such as attending Aglow, Street Pastors, Teen Challenge, e.g. but they wouldn't link with another Pentecostal church. Best wishes to everyone. Thanks for all the recent posts - most interesting.
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Re: The Secret Place Ministry Center / Vision Life Ministries / NAR
As a Christian, you get saved and you put away all sinful activities from your life and you work each day with The Lord to live a righteous life. You may get baptized as a public display of this. You share the gospel, plant seeds, maybe water them, but you have trust in God to cause any growth. You become a work in progress with others. You will slip up and with Jesus you will pick yourself up and continue. Thats basically it. With these groups you have to make salvation a burden. You have to go through Basic training levels 1, 2, and 3.. then Intermediate training 1, 2,and 3. Then advanced etc. just to learn how to pray. Something you allready knew how to do - but now you have spent hundreds of dollars and in the process became indoctrinated. And it really never ends. You have to go through 'deliverance' and then go through 'sanctification' and then buy courses to learn how to recieve a single Prophetic Word, buy a course to learn to speak in 'tongues'. Its a wonderful BUSINESS MODEL that empties your pockets and makes you feel like you have some secret knowledge that other Christians dont. Thats Gnosticism and making merchandise out of the Word of God. You end up spending so much time and money going through training courses and seminars that you lose the original purpose of the gospel. Trusting in Jesus and having faith in God is so much better than trusting in man or man-made methods. You will end up seeing a certain portion of group members struggling and even failing and they will teach you that it is the devil, or a spirit, or a curse, or an open portal but the truth is it is a dominionistic, perverse, political, money-grubby methodology that causes this to happen. You will end up realizing that you separated yourself from family, loved ones etc. that you cared about but they didn't agree with this nonsense. You will find yourself alone except for the group. You end up realizing that you just payed the property taxes for a religious leader that led you astray. And by the way, they now drive a much better car than you will ever own. Welcome to the New Apostolic Reformation's so-called 'deliverance' ministry.
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