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Re: Drug Rehab Cult Comunita Cenacolo

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Yes, Jay's point is very important. As I have pointed out before, one Cenacolo commune is never exactly the same as another (Strongly pro-Cenacolo parents who attend mass at my old church and have a son currently living in a "house" in Italy even denounce Our Lady of Hope in Florida as a particularly "raunchy" and horrible place, but - wrongly in my opinion - believe plenty of other communes are just great.), and its leadership - at least the part of its leadership consisting of members actually living the Community life, the parts of its leadership composed of "older guys" - changes over the years. I hope that shortly after I was expelled Chris - who has since left Community - and Jeremy were severely chastised for their blatantly inhumane actions, removed from their positions of trust, and permanently kept from any major leadership positions or duties. Though Joyce, to her credit, was very likely not thrilled by what took place, I highly doubt that Chris and Jeremy experienced all the consequences that they ought to have.

But while its true that individual Community communes can be wildly different from one another, I criticize Community Cenacolo as a whole. My bad experience involved in large part bad ideas, practices, and set-ups that belong to the organization as a whole and which are common to all "houses." Not the least of which is the problem to which Jay alluded but would probably not see entirely in the same light as I do - former hardened drug addicts and criminals, not professionals or medical staff or trained counselors or clergymen, have a good deal of power and control. This has lead consistenly through the years to all sorts of issues and terrible consequences. Many of the examples I gave earlier - drug use, theft, negligence, animal abuse - did not just happen at Our Lady of Hope and/or during the time I was in Community, but at other communes and years in the past as well. For instance, relatively shortly before I entered, Our Lady of Hope was in complete disarray. Nobody did anything constructive and members of the leadership took turns taking vehicles out into the town at night for a spin. People would repeatedly half-drown and revive raccoons in the lake before finally killing them, and one older-guy of about seven years in Community even tried to convince others to allow him to crucify one of the creatures alive. In Ireland, a responsible stole a car, some money, and never returned. Several people in this thread have pointed out that there us a pattern of leadership physically assaulting "younger guys." There is little oversight or accountability for "older guys", something that was certainly the case with Chris and Jeremy. As I said earlier, in order for a troubled, sick, and - frankly - deranged person like Jeremy to have been made second responsible - possibly now responsible - several people have been guilty of serious lapses in judgment. And Joyce and Albino -among others in Community - have consistently not been responsible or ensuring proper oversight.

I have other problems with the organization as a whole.

For instance, in all "houses" it is required of the individual to stand before everyone once or twice a week and confess to all his or her "sins" and rule-breaking (What were called "compromises."). I seriously considered being a smart aleck and confessing to "thought-crime, secretly reading 'The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism', poisoning the water-supply, and having sexual intercourse with both male and female party members".

Additionally, a Community member is constantly having drilled into his head the notion of "shut up and obey", a way of behaving deemed virtuous by the organization. They wish to stifle in all members individuality, free-thinking, and any questioning attitude. A large and important part of the life is what Community very tellingly calls "breaking" - harsh, often barked, correction and/or insults delivered in most cases from an "older guy" to a "newer guy." "Breaking" can be down for anything from forgetting to wash one's hands to secretly smoking cigarettes to what they considered a bad quality or pattern of behavior.

Re: Drug Rehab Cult Comunita Cenacolo

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Nibsy,

Thank you for responding. On the subject of who should run the houses, you and I are not as much in disagreement as you might think. I know that when we had religious even just visiting, the atmosphere of the house changed. Everybody took things more seriously. I always thought it would be better to have religious priests run the houses. But the problem with that is simply the numbers. The fact is they don't have enough priests to run each house.

I spent roughly the same amount of time in Community as you did and in what I am guessing were the same houses. I have no reason to doubt you on the raccoons as I have no empirical evidence otherwise, though I admit I have a bit of trouble imagining it knowing the damage that at least an adult raccoon can do to a human. Other than the rat, the most I ever saw personally anyone do anything to an animal was when guys followed the armadillo around at Mary Immaculate. Back then we had a path to the chapel made of wood boards. Of course, the armadillo always won. All it had to do was stay under the boards. And the guys had no plans to do anything with it in case they caught it so the whole thing was kind of pointless. But some always wanted to chase it for some reason.

Again, I am not at all saying you are not telling the truth. I wasn't there with those people. I'm just saying with the people I was with there wasn't any animal abuse.

That is not to say I didn't see things I disagreed with or endured things I thought were unjust. I was given Community help sometimes as many as five times a day. I will tell you the most difficult time I had in Community and let you and other readers make a judgment on its outcome.

When I was a teenager I struggled with habitual sins other than drugs that nearly destroyed my life. I wish back then I'd had a place like Cenacolo to go to because going it largely alone is even harder than Community. Twenty years later I entered Cenacolo for other reasons but made sure at least one person in the leadership knew out of fairness to them. I was advised not to reveal it, but eventually I did tell a couple people.

One night I decided to arrange and clean up under a bathroom sink so I didn't have to do it the next morning as I was on housecleaning. There was a broken tile that appeared out of place (the kitchen was being remodeled at the time and this likely came from that work). I removed the tile and found contraband that was related to the sins I had been immersed in 20 years before.

My history with this caused me to get angry inside, wondering why someone was living a double life, not understanding the poison they were allowing for themselves. I resolved to confiscate it and report it to the leadership.

Unbeknownst to me someone else had seen me and, not knowing my history, misinterpreted what they saw. They reported what they saw before I got to reporting it.

The result was that I was accused by the responsibles of its possession. I guess looking back I can't really blame them. Everything looked a certain way. At one point I stupidly had the item in my pocket, and I had a history of using it.

So I was interrogated for two days. I was told to tell the truth. I was told that Community forgives. I was even told that my family would be told if I didn't confess. But I didn't acquiesce because I knew that my family would think there was something wrong with the story and I could tell them later what had happened.

At one point I went into the chapel alone and cried out to God. I said, "Lord, you know my innocence! I have been guilty of this in the past but not now! Why are you allowing this?"

I was ordered to keep unite about it. In the meantime, an investigation resulted in everyone in the Community knowing about it.

I was emotionally destroyed. We had a picnic on one of those days and I remember eating hot dogs with some Community supporters but I was mentally gone and looked it.

After two days I was allowed to speak to Albino about it. He believed, and the matter was dropped.

Now, there is something I must make abundantly clear. If I had the chance to go back in time and warn myself and change all of this, would I do it? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Why? Because when I went to Lourdes a few months later it magnified the experience.

All of my experience in Community was the Passion, death, and Resurrection of Christ taught to me in a way I had never seen or understood before. I thank the Community for the above experience. I thank them for the way I was treated, both in the good times and the bad. I would not change one iota of my own experience. If I did, it would have made Lourdes all the less joyous. And yet I will never forget that moment when I came out of the tub and I walked outside and I looked up in the sky and saw in my mind the face of Our Lady looking down upon me. The mental image covered the entire sky, and I thought of all the difficulties of the past year, including this one, and they were a million miles away.

Two months later I came back for a visit and got into the dirt alongside the guys and laughed as it fell through my fingers. I even was glad for the bugs, whose presence previously had been the bane of my existence. And the people who had accused me in the above experience? I'm not saying I deserved it, I didn't deserve it at all. But one wiped my seat for a movie and the other, after he exited and was living in town, offered me a couch in his place so I wouldn't have to pay for a hotel. I haven't seen them in some years, but I would definitely count them as friends if I did.

Lourdes took all of my negative experiences and turned them around into positive ones, or at least ones with a positive purpose, because I learned what the Resurrection was really all about.

I never did a testimony, but if I did it would be about Lourdes. My background is in teaching history, and God appealed to that in the end. He came down from Heaven and spoke to me in my language, appealing to my heart with what I loved when we arrived there without planning on the 150th anniversary of the last apparition. I later calculated that to be a 1 in 25-30 billion chance.

So I am not angry at the responsibles at the time nor Albino or Joyce or anyone else. It was God's will for me to go through it, and I understand all the reasons now and am actually happy it happened.

I've since been able to use this story as part of prolife work that I do. I tell it to women who are in crisis pregnancy situation who are facing a rough ride ahead and need to hear about how God can be at their side in difficult circumstances.

Is Community perfect? No, not by a long shot. But the Eucharist is, and it is at the center of all Catholic religious life. And when faced with things wrong in the Community houses the members should not hesitate to go to God in Adoration and trust that He is both at their side and will heal their wounds.

You know from this exchange I'm going to pray more than I have for all this guys. Whether or not I know them I do want to support them. I would invite others to do so as well.

God bless

Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church

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ThePetitor

No you are wrong. I never recognised your use of the word "commune". That's why I put it in inverted commas. Your definition only proves that the house in Greenock is not a commune. As I said, it's a private home. The church-owned house you refer to is, not surprisingly, church-owned so they can rent it to whomever they like. I'm not sure why this interests you?

As to your second point, the burden of proof is still on you to show that a significant number of people didn't know how the school was funded. Again, I think this is you projecting your own opinion onto others. Of course the congregation knew, and still knows how the school is funded. It's in the AGM and the public accounts. They are free to withhold money if they want to.

Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church

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I see Chester has still not produced the letter despite saying he/she would when their conditions were met. "Physician heal thyself."

Re: Struthers Memorial Independent Pentecostal Church

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Cheerylizard,


I am afraid you have misinterpreted my statement. Sorry, I realise I am used to quite a legalistic interpretation of words, so my phraseology can at times need careful reading. I am not trying to be clever with words, but I do generally mean exactly what I say and not something that may be very close to what I say, but is in fact different.

I did not say you recognised my use of the word commune, I said that you recognised “the commune"- in other words, you knew exactly what I was referring to when I used the word commune even if, as I said, “you would not use that word”. So what I meant was not that you in any way acknowledge the appropriateness of my use of the word commune, but that you recognised the thing I referred to as a commune. That I found interesting: that, in spite of me using the wrong word, you knew what I was talking about.

As for why the private home they own would interest me, well, it is in the annual accounts, so it is an area of legitimate interest. Charities are ONLY allowed to act to fulfil the purpose of the charity, so it is really up to SMC to justify how this “private home” contributes to their charitable aims.

Regarding the point about whether people knew about whether the funding of the school, you make the all-encompassing statement that “of course the congregation knew”. I am not sure whether you have spoken to them all, but I can assure you that many did not. Of course I suppose I could be lying about that, but that is a rather bizarre assumption to make. You can always get out of any argument by simply saying the other person is lying – look at the “flat earth” believers or the holocaust deniers.

I don’t really see the point of any conversation if you plan to respond by accusing me of lying. To be clear, what I said is repeated below. Unless all these people are lying about the fact they did not know this, that remains an unassailable fact.

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ThePetitor
“a number of people only realised that the church was subsidising the school once it was revealed by latigo." That is not an assumption, that is a fact. You can hypothesise and speculate all you like about whether people can or want to read accounts, the facts are that a number of people did not understand the information until it was presented by Latigo.

It is fine to have view or opinions, but please don't argue with facts. Unlike SMC, it is not about who makes the most forceful comment or who claims they know what other people are thinking.

Re: The Secret Place Ministry Center / Vision Life Ministries / NAR

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Driving through this little town, I saw my old friend, Allen N Meyer. He seemed to be doing well considering he has Aspergers Syndrome. He is really a great guy - never did drugs or drank alcohol, dont even think he ever even smoked a cigarette. He was my office assistant at the local food bank before I was let go for calling them out as a cult. I really care for my friend Allen. He has been doing 12-step recovery over and over and over for a few years now, even though he never did drugs, drank, or even smoked. I really think that is stupid to force a man with a mental disability through 12-step and deliverance and all of that, but he is too afraid to say anything 'negative'. And it brought back some memories of how the entire program is 'forced' even if you don't need it. Its a form of indoctrination under the influence of isolation. I really do feel for my friend Allen though. If only he could have a chance to be free - we could probably hang out and go to church and have lunch together. But it just is not happening because of control. I am so thankful that I got out of that Secret Place Ministry cult. I am so glad that I got away from the Vision Life Ministries - New Apostolic Reformation nonsense. It really sucks to see an old friend of mine unable to even talk with me cuz he is afraid. Poor guy has a legitimate condition and is too scared to do anything outside of their control factor. All I can do is pray for him.

Re: The Secret Place Ministry Center / Vision Life Ministries / NAR

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I recently read the 2nd Holly Pivec book and they both are very well written and very informative on where this originated and what this stuff is all about. Book # 1 - God's Super-Apostles: Encountering the Worldwide Prophets and Apostles Movement. Book # 2 - A New Apostolic Reformation?: A Biblical Response to a Worldwide Movement.

Also... Here are some very good references.

[www.howcultswork.com]
[www.cultwatch.com]
[www.cultwatch.com]

For anyone who gets involved with a questionable group, I would suggest reading all this material and be educated. I have lost alot of friends and even a volunteer job because I broke free from a control group. Be careful. Be nice. And... Be Free.

Antioch International Movement of Churches

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Does anyone know anything about a fellowship of churches called Antioch International Movement of Churches based out of Waco Texas, founded by a guy named Jimmy Seibert? I think this fellowship should be watched closely and examined, From what I have read from former members blog sites, they are controlling, abusive and it appears the pastoral staff is isolated and controlling. Any info would be appreciated, Thanks,

Jeff Watkins

Re: Antioch International Movement of Churches

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There is a site that former members have began to utilize to talk about their experiences with what appears to be a mega church cult. it can be found at recoveringzealot.blogspot.com

jeff

The Facade of Praise Chapel , The Testimony of a victim of the fellowship

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I was first introduced to Praise Chapel in 1978, A man named Allen Cates had come to Chloride Arizona, (Where I was living with my family) to pioneer a praise chapel church. I wound up falling for his daughter, and being teenagers, we wound up having sex (ha ha, yes the preachers daughter) and she got pregnant. It was decided by her dad (Allen Cates and my dad) that we should get married, So I became the preachers son in law. For the next 18 years, I became what they called a disciple in training to become a pastor, (Disciple by the way, is code for slave of the pastor).

Eventually Allen Cates moved the church from Chloride to Kingman Arizona. I was still "being dicipled" During this time, I learned to do all ministries in the church, from teaching bible studies to being sunday school director, eventually becoming "Door Director" Which is responsible for running a saturday night music scene, and is supposed to make you ready to pastor a church.

During my time in kingman, my now Ex- wife began having affairs with leaders of the church, The fellowship meaning Praise Chapel and The Potters house leaders, meaning Mike Nevelle and Waymon Mitchell, also the leaders of the two fellowships, decided to counsel my ex wife and those leaders she was having sex with, They however made the decision to not tell me about all the affairs and not counsel me, Covering up all their affairs, with the blessings and consent of the founder of praise chapel Mike Nevelle and the founder of Potters House Waymon Mitchell. All of the leadership of kingman praise chapel was also in on the cover up.

Allen Cates also took delight in punishing me by taking away ministry for most of my discipleship, when I asked too many or what he considered the wrong questions.

During the time my now ex wife was having her affairs with leadership and men in the kingman church, naturally my ex wife and I were having marital problems. I did not know about the affairs as leadership covered them up, So I asked for counseling. Our assistant pastor Carl Friedrich, Who is the long running Anaheim Praise Chapel founder and member of Praise Chapel Board, came over to counsel us.. This was His counsel to me, He told me " It was all my fault, and that I needed to change. He knew all about the affairs my now ex wife was having and who she was having them with, One with his best friend, who later became the pastor of several praise chapels in the bay area and texas.

So I did all the changing and my now ex wife continued on with her affairs....

In 1986 Allen Cates was ran out of the kingman church, by his bible study leaders, with a non support vote. And who did praise chapel replace him with, no other than a potters house pastor from Alaska and Chandler Arizona, Howard Pennington, So the ones who lie and say praise chapel is not a carbon copy of potters house are just plain old liars.

In 1986 Allen Cates began to evangelize in Praise Chapel churches in Southern California, and as usual his sermons were about the devil, masterbation and of course giving to the cause.

In 1987, Allen Cates moved on to Orlando Florida to pioneer a new praise chapel. In 1988 I went to Orlando and became the Assistant Pastor. I assisted pastored for Allen Cates, and still my now ex wife was having affairs, that only I did not know about. Everyone else knew but never told me..As is Praise Chapel ways, No one goes against leadership. Our church was growing, because I took over pastoral duties, but as always, Allen Cates was tearing the people down. After two years in Orlando, I could not take the dictatorship of Cates any longer and Called Mike Nevelle and told him I was leaving Orlando to go pastor in West Sacramento California. He moved me to the Huntington Park California church, (His Church) and I evangelized for a year in southern california.

In 1990 I was "sent out" to West Sacramento California, to pioneer a new church. My church did well, and grew quickly, mainly because I had already dropped the cult like, heavy handed pastor tendencies and began to fellowship with Pastors outside of Praise Chapel. Those outside pastors helped me to grow as a christian and as a pastor. Mike Nevelle advised me that I should be hanging with praise chapel pastors only, I advised him, that I would pick and choose my own friends.

I was also helping other new pioneer praise chapels in the Sacramento Valley, by sending outreach teams, evangelizing and preaching, holding conferences and providing services from my church band to their churches.

God had been talking to me, about the secrets my now ex wife was holding and what she was doing. About 1994 God spoke to me, and told me to go ask my wife what was going on, I had asked her a couple times a year for the last 15 years, and she would always say "nothing is happening", But I felt she was not being truthful.

At the time God had again spoken to me about my ex wife, her mother Carol Cates was visiting us in West Sacramento, I walked into the living room and my ex wife and her mother were sitting on the couch, I looked at my now ex wife and told her, "God spoke to me, and once again, He wants me to ask you what is going on", Her mother Carol looked at my now ex wife and said " You better tell him" Well then she began telling me about her affairs in Kingman, (She never meantioned all the other affairs she had also been having for the last 15 years) So I heard only about two affairs in kingman (Again they were still lying and covering up), My now ex wife put a spin on this lie however, and told me she was "raped", I would soon find out, that these sold called rapes went on for a year each, and were not in fact rapes, but consented sex with leaders of the church.

I called my pastor Mike Nevelle and everyone else I knew was involved in the affairs and coverup's. The founder of praise chapel, my pastor Mike Nevelle told me to drive up to Huntington Park California with my now ex wife and get some counseling.

We drove to southern california, Mike Nevelle took us to his favorite resturant and then this was his counsel to me, He said to me, " It was a long time ago, get over it, again covering up, her continuing affairs. He said it was the policy of praise chapel in the early days, to only counsel the people involved in the affairs, and never involve their spouses, to literally cover up the affairs.

This so called counseling, lasted a whole 40 minutes, and then my now ex wife and I were headed back to West Sacramento, I was so damn mad, I threatened to kick her ass out of the car a few time.

When I got back home, I called Mike Nevelle and advised him, I was changing the name of my church to Sacramento Valley Christian Center, thus dropping the moniker of praise chapel, and that I would no longer send my gold sheets or tithes from my Church to the mother church. He told me I could not do this, I told him it was already done, I then began to tell all my pastor friends, inside and outside the fellowship about who was involved in the affairs. What leaders who were now pastoring, I was advised by Mike Neville to not tell anyone...Again the cover was to remain intact, in order to protect those pastors in praise chapel who were involved in the affairs.

Six months after learning some of the truth, I could no longer function in my church, Praise Chapel sent me to Wyoming to pioneer a new church, as it was thought a change of geography might help. The day I arrived in Wyoming, Mike Neville advised me, that I was being cut off, ex communicated and dropped from pastoring. He stranded my family in Wyoming, I worked two jobs, long enough to move my family back to California, where we stayed with an Assembly of God Pastor Friend of mine, until I could find a house, I re-formed my church again in my house, I had left my church to a praise chapel pastor, who promptly upon arriving in west sacramento, shut my church down and took our new sound system with him.

After a year in my house, I was struggling to keep my marriage and family together, I was offered an assistant pastorship with my father in law Allen Cates who was now pioneering in Bullhead City Arizona. I took it, six months into this pastorship, I discovered Allen Cates was inbezzeling church funds, I confronted him and he advised me it was none of my business. I called my friend John Pool who was assistant pastor of Kingman Praise Chapel, (He is now senior pastor of Kingman Praise Chapel since the death of Howard Pennington, Both of these men, were former Potters house pastors. They moved me to Kingman, where, my now ex wife and I got one counseling session. After 6 months in the kingman church and seeing the abuse that always goes on in the fellowship, I left with my family and took a job with the state and never looked back.

My youngest child, my daughter Neshelle, committed suicide in 2002, That was the final breaking point, I advised my now ex wife that I was moving out and wanted a divorce, (I only stayed for my kids).

In 2012 My younger brother took his own life, In 2014 My oldest son, Michael took his own life...I directly blame the fellowship and my now ex wife for these deaths, for the hell they put me and my family thru, it cost me two of my children, my brother and a relationship with my now only and youngest son...


I now pretty much reject all churches, all religions, I pray at home, I talk to God on my own, and am working on my life with my Father in heaven.....So I have a heart knowledge of the fellowship Praise Chapel, and the Cult that it is.....


I mostly posted this to let all of you who are finding your way out of the cults, to continue to escape, to not blame yourselves, and to not listen to the twisted lies those who are still involved in the cults say to you....It is scary to leave all you know, to abandon all you have been indoctrinated in, and to strip away the lies, chains and bondage, but you must do this, if you are ever going to be free, and really know your Father in heaven.

I want to close up by stating some signs from someone who has been a victim of a cult...

1. If they separate and encourage you to not associate with friends and family outside the fellowship.

2. If they keep you broke, and slaving for the cause, and always pushing for you to give more, ( By the way,,,Tithing is not New Testament teaching, and is not Godly, It is just another tool for the cult to control your life.

3. If they think for you, and the only opinion you can have is theirs.

4. If everyone but them is wrong, and only they are right.

5. If you have to ask your pastor or leadership permission to have a life and run your own life.

6. if they promote the wealthy into leadership, keep the sheep under the thumb, and demand respect and obedience to only them.

7. If there is no accoutability, either financial or spiritual, either one or both.

8. If there is no platform to question leaders or pastorship

9. If they threaten punishment for you having your own belief's, opinions and voice

Get out, run like hell, and never look back, you cannot fix a broken one sided relationship, You are not wrong, shut out the voices of the cults, and stand up for yourselves.

God bless you, thanks for listening, and carry on my wayward friends,


Jeff Watkins
Former Praise Chapel pastor West Sacramento California

Re: The Facade of Praise Chapel , The Testimony of a victim of the fellowship

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It occurs to me, that sometimes I might come off a bit bitter, and if the truth were said, Yes, my friends, there is some bitterness, hostility and sadness, when it comes to Praise Chapel and cults in general. I find it atrocious, that there are people (religions, Pastors) in the world who start out with maybe good intentions, but somewhere, make a conscience decision to hurt and wound people for their own selfish motives and agenda's.

I should let y'all know, that I have reached out to those pastors and leaders, who have so wounded my family and I, and should also tell you, in their arrogance, have refused to settle the issues, try to understand the damage they have created, and come to some sort of repentance and or sorrow for their actions. But like I said before, we cannot fix a one sided relationship.

I also must state, that we as victims, casualties of an unseen war, must understand, that those who abuse, are often victims of abuse themselves, some of the pastors and leaders who wind up abusing others, surely have been victims of the same system, that they now, victimize others. There is a part of me that despises them, and a part of me, that really feels pity for them..After all we are the one's who are fortunate enough to escape the control, abuse and victimization.

So my friends, find happiness where you can, try to be gentle on yourselves, and remember, God keeps good books.

Take care of yourselves,

jeff

Re: The Facade of Praise Chapel , The Testimony of a victim of the fellowship

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I should also add, as soon as I discovered Allen Cates embezzling from the Bullhead City Praise Chapel, I notified then head of praise chapel Larry Nevelle this information, Larry Nevelle promptly pulled my ordination papers...The corruption comes from the head down and spreads all along the leadership....

Re: Pastor Sun Hui East First Love Harvest Church Strong Foundations Films

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Hi I'm a former member of the church from first love to antioch. I even went to Texas later then them and had a falling out with them. They could not control me and never would let them. Feel free to contact me and leave me a way to get ahold of you. Maybe I can help with your family member. I knew them all and had a pretty good relation with most of them. It's funny to find this now yrs later because some of my very last words to a deconstruction was you worship her not God.

Re: Pastor Sun Hui East First Love Harvest Church Strong Foundations Films

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Concernedcitizen I also am a former member. I think I am who you are talking about they told me that Grace was still alive. Omgosh what happend. I can't believe he told me that. If you are not sure my 2 boys and I went to the church for almost a yr and then I went and got my now x wife from IOWA and my other 2 kids that I now have full custody of. Please get back to me I'd like to know who you are and some info I do not know. I did tell graces husband when I left they are evil and don't worship God they worshiped pastor. I hope they do read this because it says in the Bible do not hurt God's children and my second oldest kid was accused of VERY WRONG THINGS BY that church and even tried to tell my kid and I in a meeting God told them it was true. They ruined my kids relationship with God but in the long run my kid will be fine and they will pay for their sins with a trip to hell. They thought I'd give in to it lol ohhhhhh how wrong they were and not one of them so called men had the intestinal fortitude to stand up to me I'd have beat them so bad lol they all are a bunch of wierdos. As for Josiah lmao he smokes herb and drinks all the time he was doing it while my son was in his band and even after. I will say the kid has talent and is ok but they way they baby him is far beyond belief

Re: Any information on John MacArthur

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John MacArthur certainly DOES add to Scripture. He encourages people to take the mark in the Tribulation ("How else are you going to function?" he asks), claiming you can repent later, which is certainly NOT what is said in Revelation 16.

Additionally, he profanes the blood of Christ, saying, "We don't want to get caught in the bizarre notion that there was any saving efficacy in the FLUID that ran from Jesus' body."

He believes IDENTICALLY with Mary Baker Eddy, founder of the Christian Science cult, concerning the blood of Jesus. And he claims when the Bible talks about the saving power of Jesus' blood, it's a metaphor, a metanym of His death, which is indeed adding to Scripture.

The NT writers used the Greek word, "Haima" (blood) when talking about the blood of Christ, not "Muth," which is the word for death. So yes, John MacArthur is a cult leader.

Christadelphianism

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I am an ex Christadelphian (X'ad). I was born into an X'ad family and it became my own belief, and remained so until my late 30s. We were members of 'The Dawn' fellowship - a smaller separate group to the larger 'Central' fellowship. The core beliefs are the same but the practical out workings are slightly different. For instance, a believer who gets divorced and remarried will have fellowship 'withdrawn' from them by the Dawn, as it is believed that they are living in adultery, but they can then join Central - as they take the view that only God can judge their situation. The Central fellowship allows more autonomy to their 'meetings' (religious gatherings) but the Dawn fellowship allows for no autonomy, each 'meeting' being accountable to the whole. When one arrives at a meeting (breaking of bread), one is met by a 'brother'who has been stationed at the door. If it is not your usual meeting and he doesn't recognise you, he will ask your name and what meeting you belong to. This is written down for later publication in the regular magazine in the section where meetings put their news. A list of visitors names will be included. Thus in this way, the movements of all, can be checked by all. A 'stranger' or otherwise unbaptised individual will normally be allowed to sit in the meeting or at the back, but will not be allowed to take the bread and wine. Women are required to wear head coverings and are not allowed to address the meeting or pray out loud. Even in a 'business' meeting the same rule applies, women can only vote for something by raising her hand. One can only become a Christadelphian by taking a lengthy 'Instruction' course and by being 'examined' by two brethren, at the end, to make sure you believe exactly as you have been taught - and if they are satisfied, you will then have to be baptised.

I am relating all this for the benefit of those who don't know - and so as to give you a flavour of Christadelphianism! I have much more to say, but in the next installment!

Re: Christadelphianism

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Dear Priscilla, welcome to the message board!

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Re: The Secret Place Ministry Center / Vision Life Ministries / NAR

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I have to say thank you to a few individuals whom I will not mention here that brought to my attention what I didnt see before. The 'Bar Rescue' tactics of Jon Taffer have been applied to playing church. Chuck Pierce has a degree in 'Business' and a Masters Work in 'Cognitive Systems' If you put business and psychology together with a religious overtone - you will make money and you will have followers willing to pour money into yur business. Its not what a church leader should seek to do, but we see more and more of it happening today. Its like John Sandford got a degree in 'Religion and Personality' and formed Elijah House. If you take the time to do yur homework, you will find that they have developed a worldwide network based on psychology mixed with religion to create wonderful business models. For example.. Lets say I could convince you that you have something wrong with you, something 'spiritually' wrong with you. Its like I diagnosed you with cancer, and I have the cure. You will come to me for the fix. You will want the cure. And the fix requires some money. Not only did I diagnose you without any proof, but I played upon the cognitive functions of yur mind, so now you are becoming indoctrinated. And here comes the 'business' angle. The 'fix' is written in my book and my training courses, and I will break my book into multiple volumes (each sold separately of course) my training courses will have levels 1, 2, and 3. Then after you purchase the basics, you will reach Intermediate Level etc. Note.. take the time to watch the documentary 'Going Clear' about Scientology and the Thetan bridge. It is very revealing about their systems of progress. You will either do one of two things... 1. You will become my follower and seek me for every answer from now on.. or 2. You will WAKE UP and realize I screwed you out of alot of money and used yur belief in Christ to make you my puppet. And now you have to live with the facts, either way I got you. And this business psychology religious nonsense constantly finds 'new' suckers and there will always be families out there with a troubled child or family member and they will be so desperate for help that they will be suckered into this. Henry Malone has streamlined the process of finding suckers and has done a very good job of hiding where his teaching comes from - Peter Wagner. Ronette Stripling has hurt way more people than she has helped trying to push-force the Henry Malone stuff. . And Chuck Pierce... just a plain weirdo that knows how to influence weak peoples minds and make money on the side. And the saddest thing about it, they use The Bible. The Bible should be used to bring conviction of sin to bring a person to repentance and remission of sins. The Bible should not be used to convince a person to follow the latest business minded religious leader. It to bring people to know Jesus. And you should NEVER forget that!

Re: "APOSTLE Mike Neville...intentionally wished to brainwash all of us."

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May I ask you a couple of questions b4u?

1. What is your affiliation with Praise Chapel?
2. Do you have an affiliation with Potters House, The Arizona Churches?

You seem to be a plant from a fellowship church, and when I say fellowship church, we both know I mean P.C. Potters house or any of the other names these set of cults go by..I.E. La Puerta, The door, Grace chapel, Praise Chapel, and so many more these days....

From your post I gather you are:

1. A Mike Neville devoted follower
2. An advocate of fellowship teaching
3. An undercover plant, (Do you really think we are stupid?) Your fellowship speech betrays you....

Jeff Watkins
Former Pastor and biggest critic of the fellowship

Re: "APOSTLE Mike Neville...intentionally wished to brainwash all of us."

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Well Said Silent no more, We were there from the beginning...And good to see you, hope you are doing well...

Jeff
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